Trump - a puzzling enigma

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 9323
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Fauci et al lied in March.

Post by henry quirk »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:10 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:04 pm I don't care, lace.
Obviously.

And I'm obviously talking to more people than you.
yes...of course...that's why you opened with...

Your focus/conclusion (as usual) is distorted and self-serving.

...your referring to everyone

dig that hole, lace
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4169
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Fauci et al lied in March.

Post by Lacewing »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:14 pm
Lacewing wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:10 pm And I'm obviously talking to more people than you.
yes...of course...that's why you opened with...

Your focus/conclusion (as usual) is distorted and self-serving.
Yes, that was directed to you. YOU ASKED A QUESTION.

The rest of what I said was for the whole forum.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 2339
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Sculptor »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:43 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:35 pm Trump today:
"I always knew he virus was infectious and deadly. I knew that weeks before the first confirmed death."

FFS
0C4FA7E2-41CF-40FC-AD3A-4264FC568DED.png
PLONK!
commonsense
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by commonsense »

[/quote]
henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:50 pm I wanted to ask when I’m going to hear the actual Woodward tapes on C-Span.

when woodward allows it...the tapes are his


Also, I’m wondering if C-Span maintains a degree of editorial control by deciding which raw footage is selected for public view.

why not go to the site, or tune in on the tv or radio, and assess it for yourself?


Subtle, but very deceptive choices can skew public opinions.

true: so go judge for yourself
Hopefully he’ll release them when his book goes on sale.

I watch it on TV while I do something else on the computer.

Come to think of it, all news organizations edit the news by deciding what’s a non-story that doesn’t get reported at all.
seeds
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by seeds »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:28 am
seeds wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:46 pm Now I don’t mean to be overly dramatic about this, but the “thing” that is currently in charge of running America, is simply the result of the necrotizing processes of America’s bad karma continuing to run its course.

As I had suggested in an alternate thread, Donald Trump is a living breathing caricature of what American culture has evolved into (characterized by greed, hedonism, and narcissism), and therefore is a perfect representative for America’s present ethos.
Your entire post is wonderfully described.
Thank you, Lacewing.

And regarding your clear and incisive reply to DAM:
Lacewing wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:42 pm ...He emboldens mindless rage and division.
He is creating war and destruction.
People who feel validity from being on "sides", see him as affirming their identity and rightness.

IF ANY NON-REPUBLICAN SAID AND DID ALL OF THE ATROCIOUS AND IGNORANT STUFF THAT TRUMP HAS SAID AND DONE, DO YOU THINK REPUBLICANS WOULD BE SINGING THAT PERSON'S PRAISES... talking about how well they're playing the game?

The only way to see clearly is to get off the platforms and stop idolizing. Trump does not represent anyone but himself. His supporters have become pawns to herald his glory. Why would anyone stoop themselves to be that for him or anyone? NO ONE deserves such adulation and unquestioning support and excuses...
As I read the posts in this thread (while I watch you having fun playing with the Trump supporters of this forum - like a cat playing with mice :D)...

...I am reminded of watching some old World War 2 documentaries that showed the American and Allied soldiers marching the (“pure-blooded”) German citizens through the liberated concentration camps and making them see and smell and feel the shame of the ghastly horror of the piles of corpses of the humans who were slowly tortured and murdered on their behalf.

Image

And as I viewed these documentaries I remember wondering how in the world could such normal looking people have been so mesmerized by a madman to the point of following him down a path of such evilness that allowed for the creation of death camps?

However, based on some of the troubling and “starry-eyed” comments made by the Trump supporters in this very forum (along with the words and actions of others like them across America), I believe we are witnessing right now (right before our very eyes) precisely what happened to the German population almost a century ago.

Now I am not suggesting that Trump is as bad as Hitler. No, I am merely pointing out how easy it is for (normal and seemingly intelligent) humans to be charmed by the charisma of a demented human who is able to say just the right words at just the right time in a society’s evolution (or, in this case, a society’s devolution).

Image

To be honest, I don’t trust any politician, no matter who they are. To me, they’re all just older versions of our nerdy high school classmates who felt the need to run for the student council or for class president.

However, what is even more pathetic is to read the tiny-minded postings of members of this “philosophy” forum that fawn over and defend these power hungry (never advanced beyond high school mentality) nerds of whom they don’t know from Adam.

As far as I am concerned, someone who is truly philosophically minded should be viewing all of politics (indeed, all of life in general) from an elevated position. I’m talking about from a position that is above and outside of the political arena (like a biologist looking down at amoebas in a petri dish).

In other words, a person should never allow themself to be drawn into and trapped in the thrall of another person’s (another “amoeba’s”) charm, or personality, or ideology, or whatever it is that seems to hypnotize these people into thinking that their idol can do no wrong.

And that is especially important if that person has proven themself to be a pathological liar.

Now with that being said, what is truly disturbing and frustrating is that those who are under Trump’s thrall will question you as to what you are referring to when you speak of him being a liar, as if they have never witnessed such a thing.

And all I can conclude from that level of obliviousness is that they themselves must be pathological liars, and that they simply don’t see it as being a moral problem in either themselves, nor in others.
_______
Belinda
Posts: 4307
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:34 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:32 am Yes. But there would exist no knowledge of the eternal unless there were also egoselves to tell each other stories about it.
The idea eternal is also a story, one that is on constant repeat, it's just another known concept, another dream story that has no on or off switch.
Very good!
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 9323
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Fauci et al lied in March.

Post by henry quirk »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:16 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:14 pm
Lacewing wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:10 pm And I'm obviously talking to more people than you.
yes...of course...that's why you opened with...

Your focus/conclusion (as usual) is distorted and self-serving.
Yes, that was directed to you. YOU ASKED A QUESTION.

The rest of what I said was for the whole forum.
don't care
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 9323
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by henry quirk »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:29 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:43 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:35 pm Trump today:
"I always knew he virus was infectious and deadly. I knew that weeks before the first confirmed death."

FFS
0C4FA7E2-41CF-40FC-AD3A-4264FC568DED.png
PLONK!
correction: PLINK!
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 9323
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by henry quirk »

Hopefully he’ll release them when his book goes on sale.

my gut tells me he'll never release anything but excerpts


I watch it on TV while I do something else on the computer.

good man: how do you assess it?


Come to think of it, all news organizations edit the news by deciding what’s a non-story that doesn’t get reported at all.

how many play unedited footage and live feeds without cutaway or commercial or commentary?

only one that I'm aware of
commonsense
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by commonsense »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:29 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:43 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:35 pm Trump today:
"I always knew he virus was infectious and deadly. I knew that weeks before the first confirmed death."

FFS
0C4FA7E2-41CF-40FC-AD3A-4264FC568DED.png
PLONK!
I’m curious what Trump the Schlump’s supporters will say about this quote, reported today but recorded in early February.

Likely there will be blame-shifting and distraction, but I wonder if any will address his knowledge v his words and actions.
commonsense
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by commonsense »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:57 pm Hopefully he’ll release them when his book goes on sale.

my gut tells me he'll never release anything but excerpts


I watch it on TV while I do something else on the computer.

good man: how do you assess it?


Come to think of it, all news organizations edit the news by deciding what’s a non-story that doesn’t get reported at all.

how many play unedited footage and live feeds without cutaway or commercial or commentary?

only one that I'm aware of
Watching C-Span is like being my own reporter, observing the source material face to face.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 9323
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by henry quirk »

I’m curious what Trump the Schlump’s supporters will say about this quote, reported today but recorded in early February.

why'd bob wait so long to release the bite, and, why only the bite and not the surrounding audio (you know, for a fuller context)


Likely there will be blame-shifting and distraction

like pretty much every news organization ignoring that fauci said trump didn't mislead?


but I wonder if any will address his knowledge v his words and actions.

i wonder if any will call for more of the audio (you know, for a fuller context)

B1358803-CCAA-4094-A3E3-E4CFF20F0842.png
B1358803-CCAA-4094-A3E3-E4CFF20F0842.png (111.51 KiB) Viewed 98 times
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 9323
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by henry quirk »

commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:10 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:57 pm Hopefully he’ll release them when his book goes on sale.

my gut tells me he'll never release anything but excerpts


I watch it on TV while I do something else on the computer.

good man: how do you assess it?


Come to think of it, all news organizations edit the news by deciding what’s a non-story that doesn’t get reported at all.

how many play unedited footage and live feeds without cutaway or commercial or commentary?

only one that I'm aware of
Watching C-Span is like being my own reporter, observing the source material face to face.
exactly
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4169
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm based on some of the troubling and “starry-eyed” comments made by the Trump supporters in this very forum (along with the words and actions of others like them across America), I believe we are witnessing right now (right before our very eyes) precisely what happened to the German population almost a century ago.
It seems unfathomable... yet (I agree) this seems to shed insight into how such followings and movements can happen.
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pmNow I am not suggesting that Trump is as bad as Hitler. No, I am merely pointing out how easy it is for (normal and seemingly intelligent) humans to be charmed by the charisma of a demented human who is able to say just the right words at just the right time in a society’s evolution (or, in this case, a society’s devolution).
Scary. Helps us respect the perhaps-fragile/chaotic balance of energy potential and its vast scope and power. Within each of us, as well as collectively. So much is possible! So many types of energy: the hideous to the magnificent. I look at this currently dense and destructively divisive political environment and think (like a lot of other people) about the opposite range of the pendulum: expansiveness and cooperative potential. I'm hoping that we'll enjoy a slingshot effect (if we survive) -- raising our collective awareness and becoming more enlightened about our collective choices and power as a result of the lessons from such an ignorant and intoxicated trip as we're seeing now.
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm To be honest, I don’t trust any politician, no matter who they are.
Me neither! They all become servants to their agendas, and must skew reality to side-step challenges and criticism. Agendas can easily take on a life of their own (like false idols) and become more important than people -- so it is important not to become an army for agendas either.
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm As far as I am concerned, someone who is truly philosophically minded should be viewing all of politics (indeed, all of life in general) from an elevated position. I’m talking about from a position that is above and outside of the political arena (like a biologist looking down at amoebas in a petri dish).
YES!!!
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm In other words, a person should never allow themself to be drawn into and trapped in the thrall of another person’s (another “amoeba’s”) charm, or personality, or ideology, or whatever it is that seems to hypnotize these people into thinking that their idol can do no wrong.
Exactly! It's insane. This is why I study the bacteria in the petri dish of this forum... :lol: ... to understand why it's there and how it perpetuates.
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm Now with that being said, what is truly disturbing and frustrating is that those who are under Trump’s thrall will question you as to what you are referring to when you speak of him being a liar, as if they have never witnessed such a thing.

And all I can conclude from that level of obliviousness is that they themselves must be pathological liars, and that they simply don’t see it as being a moral problem in either themselves, nor in others.
I've wondered about this too. I think it could be a level of immature development in such people -- like children who deny the existence of cookies when there are crumbs all over their face. Pretense is powerful. Still, how they (as adults) can imagine that any of us believe such obvious pretense, is what leads me to often conclude they're stupid or severely intoxicated. I think they are capable of being much more intelligent... but for whatever reasons, something has happened to trigger their undeveloped emotions in such a way that they are presently little more than zombies destroying everything in sight on behalf of the intoxicating churning swamp of the SwampMaster and his toxic fumes.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 9295
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Trump - a puzzling enigma

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:17 pm
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm based on some of the troubling and “starry-eyed” comments made by the Trump supporters in this very forum (along with the words and actions of others like them across America), I believe we are witnessing right now (right before our very eyes) precisely what happened to the German population almost a century ago.
It seems unfathomable... yet (I agree) this seems to shed insight into how such followings and movements can happen.
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pmNow I am not suggesting that Trump is as bad as Hitler. No, I am merely pointing out how easy it is for (normal and seemingly intelligent) humans to be charmed by the charisma of a demented human who is able to say just the right words at just the right time in a society’s evolution (or, in this case, a society’s devolution).
Scary. Helps us respect the perhaps-fragile/chaotic balance of energy potential and its vast scope and power. Within each of us, as well as collectively. So much is possible! So many types of energy: the hideous to the magnificent. I look at this currently dense and destructively divisive political environment and think (like a lot of other people) about the opposite range of the pendulum: expansiveness and cooperative potential. I'm hoping that we'll enjoy a slingshot effect (if we survive) -- raising our collective awareness and becoming more enlightened about our collective choices and power as a result of the lessons from such an ignorant and intoxicated trip as we're seeing now.
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm To be honest, I don’t trust any politician, no matter who they are.
Me neither! They all become servants to their agendas, and must skew reality to side-step challenges and criticism. Agendas can easily take on a life of their own (like false idols) and become more important than people -- so it is important not to become an army for agendas either.
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm As far as I am concerned, someone who is truly philosophically minded should be viewing all of politics (indeed, all of life in general) from an elevated position. I’m talking about from a position that is above and outside of the political arena (like a biologist looking down at amoebas in a petri dish).
YES!!!
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm In other words, a person should never allow themself to be drawn into and trapped in the thrall of another person’s (another “amoeba’s”) charm, or personality, or ideology, or whatever it is that seems to hypnotize these people into thinking that their idol can do no wrong.
Exactly! It's insane. This is why I study the bacteria in the petri dish of this forum... :lol: ... to understand why it's there and how it perpetuates.
seeds wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm Now with that being said, what is truly disturbing and frustrating is that those who are under Trump’s thrall will question you as to what you are referring to when you speak of him being a liar, as if they have never witnessed such a thing.

And all I can conclude from that level of obliviousness is that they themselves must be pathological liars, and that they simply don’t see it as being a moral problem in either themselves, nor in others.
I've wondered about this too. I think it could be a level of immature development in such people -- like children who deny the existence of cookies when there are crumbs all over their face. Pretense is powerful. Still, how they (as adults) can imagine that any of us believe such obvious pretense, is what leads me to often conclude they're stupid or severely intoxicated. I think they are capable of being much more intelligent... but for whatever reasons, something has happened to trigger their undeveloped emotions in such a way that they are presently little more than zombies destroying everything in sight on behalf of the intoxicating churning swamp of the SwampMaster and his toxic fumes.
Well he called soldiers 'losers and suckers', which is spot on, so he can't be all bad. Give the dear man some slack :D
Post Reply