Some countries with low death rates.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/ ... 20358.html
I wonder if the elephant in the room is Western countries have poor quality, high calory diet, and poor health propped up with good healthcare?
What accounts for Western high death rates?
-
Impenitent
- Posts: 4356
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
better statisticians
-Imp
-Imp
-
commonsense
- Posts: 5165
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
True, but in some African countries the elephant in the room is actually the elephant in the room.Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:11 am Some countries with low death rates.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/ ... 20358.html
I wonder if the elephant in the room is Western countries have poor quality, high calory diet, and poor health propped up with good healthcare?
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
is demographical distribution given with the death rate statistics?
Because in my country (Western country, highly developed) most of the dead to date occurred in old folk homes where the conditions were deplorable, inhumane, horrible.
I don't think there are many old people (of age 85 and above) in developing countries. and if there are, they are not locked up in rooms with cockroaches crawling over their open sores.
Because in my country (Western country, highly developed) most of the dead to date occurred in old folk homes where the conditions were deplorable, inhumane, horrible.
I don't think there are many old people (of age 85 and above) in developing countries. and if there are, they are not locked up in rooms with cockroaches crawling over their open sores.
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
ha f*cking ha-1- wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 8:53 amTrue, but in some African countries the elephant in the room is actually the elephant in the room.Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:11 am Some countries with low death rates.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/ ... 20358.html
I wonder if the elephant in the room is Western countries have poor quality, high calory diet, and poor health propped up with good healthcare?
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
Where do you live?-1- wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 8:57 am is demographical distribution given with the death rate statistics?
Because in my country (Western country, highly developed) most of the dead to date occurred in old folk homes where the conditions were deplorable, inhumane, horrible.
I don't think there are many old people (of age 85 and above) in developing countries. and if there are, they are not locked up in rooms with cockroaches crawling over their open sores.
IN the UK it only accounts for 35% of deaths.
But a straight sided age-pyramid accounts for "being propped up" by a health service that is not enjoyed by some poorer countries.
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
Going back to topic, after a healthy helping of thrashing Sculptor:
I remember early reports (February? March?) which said that the virus dies in hot air. They did not specify the temperature.
All countries in the article listed with high mortality rates are in the so-called temperate climate zone. Those closer to the equator (Brazil) has the bulk of its population live in the more temperate areas of the country. African and south-Asian countries with low mortality rate are in the subtropical and in the tropical climate zones. And most of them are very humid.
This could be one of the reasons. Most likely there are others as well.
I remember early reports (February? March?) which said that the virus dies in hot air. They did not specify the temperature.
All countries in the article listed with high mortality rates are in the so-called temperate climate zone. Those closer to the equator (Brazil) has the bulk of its population live in the more temperate areas of the country. African and south-Asian countries with low mortality rate are in the subtropical and in the tropical climate zones. And most of them are very humid.
This could be one of the reasons. Most likely there are others as well.
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
Please desist.
Did you even bother to read the article?
I remember early reports (February? March?) which said that the virus dies in hot air. They did not specify the temperature.
All countries in the article listed with high mortality rates are in the so-called temperate climate zone. Those closer to the equator (Brazil) has the bulk of its population live in the more temperate areas of the country. African and south-Asian countries with low mortality rate are in the subtropical and in the tropical climate zones. And most of them are very humid.
This could be one of the reasons. Most likely there are others as well.
-
commonsense
- Posts: 5165
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
Yes, there are a number of co-factors:-1- wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 4:50 pm Going back to topic, after a healthy helping of thrashing Sculptor:
I remember early reports (February? March?) which said that the virus dies in hot air. They did not specify the temperature.
All countries in the article listed with high mortality rates are in the so-called temperate climate zone. Those closer to the equator (Brazil) has the bulk of its population live in the more temperate areas of the country. African and south-Asian countries with low mortality rate are in the subtropical and in the tropical climate zones. And most of them are very humid.
This could be one of the reasons. Most likely there are others as well.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... n-the-west
-
henry quirk
- Posts: 14706
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
- Location: Right here, a little less busy.
"What accounts for Western high death rates?"
Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Department of Public Health...
“I just want to be clear in terms of the definition of ‘people dying of COVID.’ The case definition is very simplistic. It means, at the time of death, it was a COVID positive diagnosis. That means, that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means, technically even if you died of clear alternative cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it’s still listed as a COVID death. Everyone who is listed as a COVID death, doesn’t mean that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of death.”
-----
In Macomb County, Chief Medical Examiner Daniel Spitz had a recent case in which an individual died by suicide.
Because they had a family member in the hospital suffering from COVID-19, Spitz had a postmortem test done and found that the individual who died at home was positive for COVID-19. The virus wasn’t their cause of death, but the individual is counted as a COVID-19 death.
Similar cases of “death with coronavirus” have likely been included in the state’s count. In Oakland County, every individual who has died while infected with COVID-19 has counted as a coronavirus death, according to Dr. Ljubisa J. Gragovic, the county’s chief medical examiner.
“We are testing all the people who are deceased who are brought in, whether they sustained injuries or were in a hospital setting or their place of work or home, whether they’re victims of violence or unexpected sudden death, we’re testing them,” Dragovic said.
-----
Colorado:
Nearly a quarter of the people reported as coronavirus deaths in state statistics don’t have the virus listed on their death certificates — at least not yet — the state Health Department said Friday, adding more uncertainty to how many people the virus has killed in Colorado.
The number of coronavirus deaths in state figures topped 1,000 earlier this week, and the number stood at 1,150 deaths as of Friday afternoon. But officials with the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment revealed during a call with reporters that that number does not represent the number of people who have died due to COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus.
Instead, the death figure CDPHE has been providing for weeks is more accurately described as the number of people with COVID-19 who have died — for any reason. The number of people who have died and have COVID-19 listed on their death certificate is 24% lower: 878, according to CDPHE’s latest figures.
John Ingold and Jesse Paul, “Nearly a quarter of the people Colorado said died from coronavirus don’t have COVID-19 on their death certificate,” Colorado Sun, May 15, 2020.
-----
Director Deborah Birx recently noted:
“There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording [this] as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. . . . [In the US] if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.”
-----
Colonial Funeral Home in Queens, New York City, New York. The funeral director is explaining that they are putting COVID-19 on “everything.”
Comments from funeral director: “To be honest with you, all the death certificates they are writing COVID on all the death certificates whether they had a positive or that they didn’t. So I think, this is my personal opinion, I think like the mayor of our city, they are looking for federal funding, and the more they put COVID on a death certificate, the more they can ask for federal funds. So I think that it is political. So I am going to turn around and say not everybody who has COVID on their death certificate died of COVID. Can I prove that? No, but that is my suspicion. … They are putting it on everybody’s death certificate to make life easier for them. … They are just pushing things out because they are overwhelmed, and it is just easier to write COVID on everything. … I couldn’t give you a number, but quite a lot.”
-----
In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely.
CDC, Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID–19), April 2020
-----
N.Y.C. Death Toll Soars Past 10,000 in Revised Virus Count. The city has added more than 3,700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive. . . .
J. David Goodman and William K. Rashbaum, “N.Y.C. Death Toll Soars Past 10,000 in Revised Virus Count,” April 21, 2020
“I just want to be clear in terms of the definition of ‘people dying of COVID.’ The case definition is very simplistic. It means, at the time of death, it was a COVID positive diagnosis. That means, that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means, technically even if you died of clear alternative cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it’s still listed as a COVID death. Everyone who is listed as a COVID death, doesn’t mean that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of death.”
-----
In Macomb County, Chief Medical Examiner Daniel Spitz had a recent case in which an individual died by suicide.
Because they had a family member in the hospital suffering from COVID-19, Spitz had a postmortem test done and found that the individual who died at home was positive for COVID-19. The virus wasn’t their cause of death, but the individual is counted as a COVID-19 death.
Similar cases of “death with coronavirus” have likely been included in the state’s count. In Oakland County, every individual who has died while infected with COVID-19 has counted as a coronavirus death, according to Dr. Ljubisa J. Gragovic, the county’s chief medical examiner.
“We are testing all the people who are deceased who are brought in, whether they sustained injuries or were in a hospital setting or their place of work or home, whether they’re victims of violence or unexpected sudden death, we’re testing them,” Dragovic said.
-----
Colorado:
Nearly a quarter of the people reported as coronavirus deaths in state statistics don’t have the virus listed on their death certificates — at least not yet — the state Health Department said Friday, adding more uncertainty to how many people the virus has killed in Colorado.
The number of coronavirus deaths in state figures topped 1,000 earlier this week, and the number stood at 1,150 deaths as of Friday afternoon. But officials with the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment revealed during a call with reporters that that number does not represent the number of people who have died due to COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus.
Instead, the death figure CDPHE has been providing for weeks is more accurately described as the number of people with COVID-19 who have died — for any reason. The number of people who have died and have COVID-19 listed on their death certificate is 24% lower: 878, according to CDPHE’s latest figures.
John Ingold and Jesse Paul, “Nearly a quarter of the people Colorado said died from coronavirus don’t have COVID-19 on their death certificate,” Colorado Sun, May 15, 2020.
-----
Director Deborah Birx recently noted:
“There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording [this] as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. . . . [In the US] if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.”
-----
Colonial Funeral Home in Queens, New York City, New York. The funeral director is explaining that they are putting COVID-19 on “everything.”
Comments from funeral director: “To be honest with you, all the death certificates they are writing COVID on all the death certificates whether they had a positive or that they didn’t. So I think, this is my personal opinion, I think like the mayor of our city, they are looking for federal funding, and the more they put COVID on a death certificate, the more they can ask for federal funds. So I think that it is political. So I am going to turn around and say not everybody who has COVID on their death certificate died of COVID. Can I prove that? No, but that is my suspicion. … They are putting it on everybody’s death certificate to make life easier for them. … They are just pushing things out because they are overwhelmed, and it is just easier to write COVID on everything. … I couldn’t give you a number, but quite a lot.”
-----
In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely.
CDC, Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID–19), April 2020
-----
N.Y.C. Death Toll Soars Past 10,000 in Revised Virus Count. The city has added more than 3,700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive. . . .
J. David Goodman and William K. Rashbaum, “N.Y.C. Death Toll Soars Past 10,000 in Revised Virus Count,” April 21, 2020
-
henry quirk
- Posts: 14706
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
- Location: Right here, a little less busy.
-
vegetariantaxidermy
- Posts: 13983
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
- Location: Narniabiznus
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
Rest home deaths aren't included in the UK statistics. I can understand why. I think all but one of the deaths here have been from rest homes. We did have a very strict lockdown though-- which people abided by.
-
commonsense
- Posts: 5165
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
On my side of the pond the lockdown violated rights guaranteed by our constitution. Some people wanted to follow the guidelines on quarantining but wished for more relaxed rules. Others ignored the guidelines. It is what it is.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:01 pmRest home deaths aren't included in the UK statistics. I can understand why. I think all but one of the deaths here have been from rest homes. We did have a very strict lockdown though-- which people abided by.
-
vegetariantaxidermy
- Posts: 13983
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
- Location: Narniabiznus
Re: What accounts for Western high death rates?
Oh crap. Most yanks are too illiterate to read the 'constitution' let alone understand the meaning. If your 'constitution' guarantees your 'liberty' (whatever that means) then why is the US so far down the freedom index? How 'free' are you if you can't innocently go about your business without being murdered by a cop? How 'free' are you if you get sick and die because some moron has sneezed all over you on public transport? How 'free' are you if you have to entrust your life to the average moron? And if the American economy goes down the gurgler then at least there will be fewer morons driving around in planet-destroying tanks.commonsense wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:48 pmOn my side of the pond the lockdown violated rights guaranteed by our constitution. Some people wanted to follow the guidelines on quarantining but wished for more relaxed rules. Others ignored the guidelines. It is what it is.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:01 pmRest home deaths aren't included in the UK statistics. I can understand why. I think all but one of the deaths here have been from rest homes. We did have a very strict lockdown though-- which people abided by.
