Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

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mathygreen
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by mathygreen »

If the man then dies, then it's registered as a COVID death regardless of actual cause. Similarly, in our old folks' homes, a person who dies at age 85 is tested for COVID, even if she had no manifest symptoms.

If she is found to have been positive, then the death is not attributed to age anymore, but to COVID. In fact, the old folk's home in my area was apparently going about asking relatives to sign off on their loved one's deaths as COVID, and explaining that if they did, there would be more money from the government for the home but none if they did not. Naturally, most want to see more funding for elder care, so they sign, regardless of the truth.
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henry quirk
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by henry quirk »

I missed this...
mathygreen wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:42 pm If the man then dies, then it's registered as a COVID death regardless of actual cause. Similarly, in our old folks' homes, a person who dies at age 85 is tested for COVID, even if she had no manifest symptoms.

If she is found to have been positive, then the death is not attributed to age anymore, but to COVID. In fact, the old folk's home in my area was apparently going about asking relatives to sign off on their loved one's deaths as COVID, and explaining that if they did, there would be more money from the government for the home but none if they did not. Naturally, most want to see more funding for elder care, so they sign, regardless of the truth.
Yep... 👍
FrankGSterleJr
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by FrankGSterleJr »

While I've willingly taken three COVID-vaccine injections (as well as the annual influenza shots for decades), I nevertheless feel the term 'science' generally gets used a bit too readily/frequently, especially for corporate goals. And Pfizer’s assertion a few months ago that a fourth-dose mass-consumption of their not-cheap product is needed immediately induced even less trust/confidence by me in the big business.

I'm also cautious of blindly buying into (what I call) speculative science, in general. Owing to increasingly common privatize-sector research aiming for corporate profits, even science, and perhaps by extension scientific 'fact', has become commercialized. Research results, however flawed, can and are known to be publicly amplified if they favor the corporate product, and accurate research results can be suppressed or ignored if they are unfavorable to business interests, even when involving human health.

Mega-corporation lobbyists — especially those representing the huge and very powerful/influential pharmaceutical industry — largely lead Western nations. Such lobbyist manipulation does not belong in any government body established to protect consumers’ safety and health rather than big businesses’ insatiable profit goals. ...

Health Canada (our version of the American FDA) was established to act in Canadian consumers’ best interests, yet it's susceptible to corporate lobbyist manipulation. For one thing, it allowed novelty-flavored vaping products to be fully marketed — even on corner stores’ candy counters — without conclusive independent scientific proof that the product, as claimed by the tobacco industry, would not seriously harm consumers but rather help nicotine addicts wean themselves off of the more carcinogenic cigarette means of nicotine deliverance.

A few years before that, Health Canada had sat on its own research results that indicated seatbelts would save lives and reduce injury; it wanted even more proof of safety through seatbelts before ordering big bus manufacturers to install them in every bus.

I'm cautious of blindly buying into speculative science, in general. Owing to increasingly common privatize-sector research aiming for corporate profits, even science, and perhaps by extension scientific 'fact', has become commercialized. Research results, however flawed, can and are known to be publicly amplified if they favor the corporate product, and accurate research results can be suppressed or ignored if they are unfavorable to business interests, even when involving human health.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

mathygreen wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:42 pm If the man then dies, then it's registered as a COVID death regardless of actual cause. Similarly, in our old folks' homes, a person who dies at age 85 is tested for COVID, even if she had no manifest symptoms.

If she is found to have been positive, then the death is not attributed to age anymore, but to COVID. In fact, the old folk's home in my area was apparently going about asking relatives to sign off on their loved one's deaths as COVID, and explaining that if they did, there would be more money from the government for the home but none if they did not. Naturally, most want to see more funding for elder care, so they sign, regardless of the truth.
This is somthing that I find very baffling. Dying 'with' covid is very different from dying 'of' covid. Every day we get told that ___have died 'with' covid, so it looks as if we have a lot of people dying because of covid, yet many (all?) of those people have actually died of heart attacks/diabetes/influenza/liver failure/old age and any number of other causes. What's the point?
Phil8659
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by Phil8659 »

I am not either one. I believe that what we do to our body is a biological choice.
I will not take the vax, because I believe if my body cannot take it, fuck it, nature will try again.

I have laid in delirium for three days once, soaking my bed with sweat, I allowed my body to fend for itself. I have never had to take a flu shot because of it. Nor ever had the flu since.

Ever here of the term watershed, in biology?
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MagsJ
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by MagsJ »

_
An acquaintance of mine declared the other day, is it just me or has anyone else noticed that everyone is falling sick..?

Well I have, and it’s the vaccinated who are falling sick, from unaccountable symptoms arising from nowhere.. the main one being extreme exhaustion/fatigue.. causing plans -to be cancelled- until further notice.. coz they don’t know when they’ll be well again.

This happened to me after having an anaesthetic some years back.. only recovering from it now, as it suppressed/damaged my nervous system, causing a multitude of symptoms to arise.

Those who never got the jab, are now happy that they never got the jab.. holding out, from the urge to succumb to the 'faux’ mandatory ploy ..many are now wishing that they had done likewise.

So.. in answer to the OP, getting 'vaxxed' is a form of suicide.
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bahman
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by bahman »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:44 am So many prominent anti vaxers have died of covid that you have to wonder. Wouldn't euthanasia be a pleasanter way to go?
It is not only suicide but a crime too since you put the lives of others in danger.
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MagsJ
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by MagsJ »

bahman wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:28 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:44 am So many prominent anti vaxers have died of covid that you have to wonder. Wouldn't euthanasia be a pleasanter way to go?
It is not only suicide but a crime too since you put the lives of others in danger.
That has been disproven.. most of the vaxxed that I know, caught covid -and very badly so- multiple times, so I think it’s down to susceptibility/biological-makeup rather than a given.

Ministers and health officials have already made public, the fact that the actual deaths from covid are much lower than recorded.. they plan to release those figures in the near future.

They can’t feed the world or implement a decent living wage, but they can vaccinate you with a multi-billion pound vaccine, for free. 😁
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

MagsJ wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:04 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:28 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:44 am So many prominent anti vaxers have died of covid that you have to wonder. Wouldn't euthanasia be a pleasanter way to go?
It is not only suicide but a crime too since you put the lives of others in danger.
That has been disproven.. most of the vaxxed that I know, caught covid -and very badly so- multiple times, so I think it’s down to susceptibility/biological-makeup rather than a given.

Ministers and health officials have already made public, the fact that the actual deaths from covid are much lower than recorded.. they plan to release those figures in the near future.

They can’t feed the world or implement a decent living wage, but they can vaccinate you with a multi-billion pound vaccine, for free. 😁
So much has changed and keeps changing so fast since my OP that I don't necessarily agree with it now anyway. I doubt if many people at all have died 'of' Omicron. The first variant was quite a different matter, and there was no vaccine at that time anyway.
It's a strange thing that everyone's experience of it is so enormously varied. I mean, a cold is a cold and is pretty much the same with everyone. Same with influenza. With this virus some people only get a stomach ache for a day, some get a sore throat for a couple of days, some are laid up in bed for 5 days feeling weak and terrible, others get no symptoms at all etc.etc...... I've been around many people who have been 'positive' at the time, but I haven't had it, yet it's supposed to be incredibly contagious. I've known a couple of people who have died suddenly and unexpectedly soon after getting their booster shot though--both men in their sixties.
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bahman
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by bahman »

MagsJ wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:04 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:28 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:44 am So many prominent anti vaxers have died of covid that you have to wonder. Wouldn't euthanasia be a pleasanter way to go?
It is not only suicide but a crime too since you put the lives of others in danger.
That has been disproven.. most of the vaxxed that I know, caught covid -and very badly so- multiple times, so I think it’s down to susceptibility/biological-makeup rather than a given.

Ministers and health officials have already made public, the fact that the actual deaths from covid are much lower than recorded.. they plan to release those figures in the near future.

They can’t feed the world or implement a decent living wage, but they can vaccinate you with a multi-billion pound vaccine, for free. 😁
The efficacy of the vaccine is higher in adults than elderly: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 58294/full
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MagsJ
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by MagsJ »

bahman wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:28 pm The efficacy of the vaccine is higher in adults than elderly: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 58294/full
Doesn't mean that people aren’t getting sick from the vax.. my nephew’s mum died after her second jab, she was neither old nor ill.. her heart just stopped, for no reason at all. There was no energy in her body, for the medics to be able to restart her heart with.

Anyhoo..
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Sculptor
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by Sculptor »

Being antivax is more like being a parasite pussy.

Anyone not bothering to get their vaccinations are avoiding getting a little p****, and betting that there are so few arseholes like themselves so that they still get the benefits of widespread vaccinations, whilst avoiding a tiny bit of pain.

There are a dozen diseases that have been almost eradicated by vaccination programs that selfish libertarians can reap the benefits of the communitarian ideas of the majority who understand the importance of vaccinations and herd immunity.
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Sculptor
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by Sculptor »

MagsJ wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:04 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:28 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:44 am So many prominent anti vaxers have died of covid that you have to wonder. Wouldn't euthanasia be a pleasanter way to go?
It is not only suicide but a crime too since you put the lives of others in danger.
That has been disproven.. most of the vaxxed that I know, caught covid -and very badly so- multiple times, so I think it’s down to susceptibility/biological-makeup rather than a given.
Your anecdote is meaningless as so many are. You have to ask would they have actually died of those infactions had they NOT been vaccinated.
The fact is that the vaccinations do not stop you getting the virus but they most likley stop you getting a fatal infection since your body is prepared for it when it comes.

Ministers and health officials have already made public, the fact that the actual deaths from covid are much lower than recorded.. they plan to release those figures in the near future.
SAys who?
Carlson Tucker?

They can’t feed the world or implement a decent living wage, but they can vaccinate you with a multi-billion pound vaccine, for free. 😁
Relevance?
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Sculptor
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by Sculptor »

MagsJ wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:57 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:28 pm The efficacy of the vaccine is higher in adults than elderly: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 58294/full
Doesn't mean that people aren’t getting sick from the vax.. my nephew’s mum died after her second jab, she was neither old nor ill.. her heart just stopped, for no reason at all. There was no energy in her body, for the medics to be able to restart her heart with.

Anyhoo..
post hoc ergo propter hoc
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Sculptor
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Re: Is being 'anti vax' a form of suicide?

Post by Sculptor »

MagsJ wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:06 pm _
An acquaintance of mine declared the other day, is it just me or has anyone else noticed that everyone is falling sick..?

Well I have, and it’s the vaccinated who are falling sick, from unaccountable symptoms arising from nowhere.. the main one being extreme exhaustion/fatigue.. causing plans -to be cancelled- until further notice.. coz they don’t know when they’ll be well again.
The vaccinated are 95% of the population, of course they are the ones getting sick FFS.
Try and think things through.
The fact is that they are NOT dying in the same numbers as before the vaccinations were available.
Is this making any sense to you or do I have to come round and slap you in the face a bit until you see sense?
:lol: :lol:

This happened to me after having an anaesthetic some years back.. only recovering from it now, as it suppressed/damaged my nervous system, causing a multitude of symptoms to arise.

Those who never got the jab, are now happy that they never got the jab.. holding out, from the urge to succumb to the 'faux’ mandatory ploy ..many are now wishing that they had done likewise.

So.. in answer to the OP, getting 'vaxxed' is a form of suicide.
What a confused collection of anecdotes you have at your disposal" :lol:
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