safety v. compliance

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

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Advocate
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safety v. compliance

Post by Advocate »

People who are vaccinated couldn't possibly transmit an infection they haven't got, but will be no less forced into compliance.
commonsense
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by commonsense »

Advocate wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:40 pm People who are vaccinated couldn't possibly transmit an infection they haven't got, but will be no less forced into compliance.
Do you know what the consequences are for non-compliance? I’ve heard the fines aren’t too bad.
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Sculptor
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Sculptor »

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Sculptor
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Sculptor »

Advocate wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:40 pm People who are vaccinated couldn't possibly transmit an infection they haven't got, but will be no less forced into compliance.
Vaccinated people CAN and do pass on infections.
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Dontaskme
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Dontaskme »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:58 pm
Advocate wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:40 pm People who are vaccinated couldn't possibly transmit an infection they haven't got, but will be no less forced into compliance.
Vaccinated people CAN and do pass on infections.
Nature is a sadistic mindless serial killer.

No one gets out alive, nor does anyone get given a get out of jail free card while they are imprisoned and waiting for their release.

Most Humans have not yet evolved past their diaper ( nappy) days, most of them play with it’s content, eben smearing it on their prison walls for everyone to see.


The cry babies always want they’re own way, they yell, kick bite and scream when they don’t get it. They just do not get it..The bigger picture that is…it’s all about meme meme….me me me…WhaH! BaH! It’s not fair!…Boo Hoo!

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Sculptor
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Sculptor »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:32 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:58 pm
Advocate wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:40 pm People who are vaccinated couldn't possibly transmit an infection they haven't got, but will be no less forced into compliance.
Vaccinated people CAN and do pass on infections.
Nature is a sadistic mindless serial killer.

No one gets out alive, nor does anyone get given a get out of jail free card while they are imprisoned and waiting for their release.

Most Humans have not yet evolved past their diaper ( nappy) days, most of them play with it’s content, eben smearing it on their prison walls for everyone to see.


The cry babies always want they’re own way, they yell, kick bite and scream when they don’t get it. They just do not get it..The bigger picture that is…it’s all about meme meme….me me me…WhaH! BaH! It’s not fair!…Boo Hoo!

.
Yep.
Life is a sexually transmitted disease that is always fatal.
We strut our stuff on the stage signifying nothing much.
While we are here I think it is a good idea to try and not be a ****.
So get your jab, take a few precautions and stop shortening other people's lives.
And stop moaning with fake news covidiot memes!!
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RCSaunders
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:58 pm Vaccinated people CAN and do pass on infections.
Then why take the risk of getting vaccinated if it doesn't do any good?
Skepdick
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Skepdick »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:27 pm Then why take the risk of getting vaccinated if it doesn't do any good?
The vaccine doesn't stop the virus from infecting you.
It stops the virus from killing you.

A seatbelt and an airbag doesn't stop you from having a car accident.
A bulletproof vest doesn't stop you from getting shot.

Ceteris paribus you are evaluating the risk of A vs the risk of B.

Either vaccination is worse than non-vaccination; or non-vacination is worse than vaccination.

You get vaccinated because it reduces your risk.
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RCSaunders
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by RCSaunders »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:31 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:27 pm Then why take the risk of getting vaccinated if it doesn't do any good?
The vaccine doesn't stop the virus from infecting you.
It stops the virus from killing you.
A lot of people who have had the vaccine have died with covid. It's your choice. The vaccine itself has killed a fair number as well.

I'm all for vaccines in the sense of producing an immune reaction in response to actual infectious organisms rendered harmless. The only experience there has been with mRNA type vaccines has not been good.

Pick your poison.
Skepdick
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Skepdick »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:42 pm A lot of people who have had the vaccine have died with covid. It's your choice. The vaccine itself has killed a fair number as well.

I'm all for vaccines in the sense of producing an immune reaction in response to actual infectious organisms rendered harmless. The only experience there has been with mRNA type vaccines has not been good.

Pick your poison.
This is the dumb shit all moral relativists like to spew. You like to equate everything. 1 person dying is the same as 1000 people dying. Dying at 45 is the same as dying at 75. It's all the same man. Dying is dying!

If both COVID and the vaccine are "equally poisonous" then it doesn't matter which one you pick.If A = B they are both equally terrible! They are both equally deadly/dangerous/poisonous. If that's true then you have no choice! All you have is the illusion of choice. Flip a coin. Or don't. It doesn't even matter. Whatever you do - you poison yourself.

Unless, of course, there's some way, some method to determine whether A is not as bad as B; or whether B is not as bad as A. SOME WAY to turn A=B into A > B; or B > A.

When you determine that A != B, and you determine which one is better and which one is worse: you have manufactured a choice!
Skepdick
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:40 pm People who are vaccinated couldn't possibly transmit an infection they haven't got, but will be no less forced into compliance.
This shows a fundamental misunderstanding. So I shall repeat myself.

The vaccine doesn't stop the virus from infecting you.
It stops the virus from killing you.

Once you are vaccinated COVID-19 will still infect you. You just won't end up in a hospital/coffin because of it.
You can still give it to somebody else who's not immunised. They can end up in a hospital/coffin.

The safety vs compliance paradox is a false paradox. It's a manufactured conflict between free will and authority.

You have a choice: Vaccinate; or don't.

Vaccination is better than non-vaccination. The evidence shows this. If you are rational - you will recognise this.
And if your rational goal is to extend your life (prevent sickness/harm) then you should choose vaccination. Irrespective or who says what or why.
We trust the science not the scientists.

The freedom of your will comes in the fact that you NOW have an option: a vaccine. You didn't have that option a year ago.

We literally manufactured choice! Science literally gave you free will.

When you see it for what it is, there's no conflict. Nobody is telling you what to do. There are two options before you. One's much much worse than the other. Don't choose that one. The end!

But if you want to be a spoiled teenager and rebel against authority, you probably will choose the shitty option just to be different.
Automatically believe and do the opposite of what people in authority say that does not make you a free thinker. It makes you dumb.
Last edited by Skepdick on Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RCSaunders
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by RCSaunders »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:55 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:42 pm A lot of people who have had the vaccine have died with covid. It's your choice. The vaccine itself has killed a fair number as well.

I'm all for vaccines in the sense of producing an immune reaction in response to actual infectious organisms rendered harmless. The only experience there has been with mRNA type vaccines has not been good.

Pick your poison.
This is the dumb shit all moral relativists like to spew. You like to equate everything. 1 person dying is the same as 1000 people dying. Dying at 45 is the same as dying at 75. It's all the same man. Dying is dying!

If both COVID and the vaccine are "equally poisonous" then it doesn't matter which one you pick.If A = B they are both equally terrible! They are both equally deadly/dangerous/poisonous. If that's true then you have no choice! All you have is the illusion of choice. Flip a coin. Or don't. It doesn't even matter. Whatever you do - you poison yourself.

Unless, of course, there's some way, some method to determine whether A is not as bad as B; or whether B is not as bad as A. SOME WAY to turn A=B into A > B; or B > A.

When you determine that A != B, and you determine which one is better and which one is worse: you have manufactured a choice!
You really ought to write fiction. There is not one thing you said I have ever thought or written. I just don't happen to believe the lies of the government, MSM, and academia. Believe them if you like and do exactly what they tell you and hope they're right--this time. They sure were wrong about the swine flu vaccine.
Skepdick
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Skepdick »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:28 pm You really ought to write fiction. There is not one thing you said I have ever thought or written. I just don't happen to believe the lies of the government, MSM, and academia. Believe them if you like and do exactly what they tell you and hope they're right--this time. They sure were wrong about the swine flu vaccine.
The same fucking predictable conspiracy theorist drivel. There's nothing worse than dumb people making dumb choices in the name of individualism.
You are fucking it all up for everyone. I am not going to waste my time repeating myself. See my response to the OP
Skepdick wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:09 pm ....

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RCSaunders
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by RCSaunders »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:44 pm Some authorities for you to consider:
Each year, more than 165 million Americans get the flu shot. There were 85 reported deaths following influenza vaccination in 2017; 119 deaths in 2018; and 203 deaths in 2019. Between mid-December 2020 and April 23, 2021, at which point between 95 million and 100 million Americans had received their COVID-19 shots, there were 3,544 reported deaths following COVID vaccination, or about 30 per day
An elevated risk for myocarditis among mRNA COVID-19 vaccinees has been observed, particularly in males aged 12–29 years.[Myocarditis is always fatal.
This means that as of 30th June 2021 the Covid-19 vaccines have caused 1,037,376 adverse reactions and 1,440 deaths, and now they’re coming for your children and want to give booster jabs to the elderly and vulnerable in Autumn. [Has nice comparison with real vaccines as well.]
If you look at the VAERS [vaccine adverse event reporting system], which in my opinion is a piece of garbage … as of today, let’s say says there’s 6,000 deaths associated with taking the vaccine. Well, we need to understand what that actually means,” Zelenko says.

“If you look at the 2009 Harvard study on the VAERS system, they said only 1% of events are actually reported. So, OK … whatever the number is, it’s not 6,000. Maybe only 10% are being reported. I don’t know. But definitely it’s being underreported.
As of March 5, 2021, the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) had received 31,079 adverse reaction reports for COVID-19 vaccines, including 1,551 deaths
Skepdick
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Re: safety v. compliance

Post by Skepdick »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:53 pm
Skepdick wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:44 pm Some authorities for you to consider:
Each year, more than 165 million Americans get the flu shot. There were 85 reported deaths following influenza vaccination in 2017; 119 deaths in 2018; and 203 deaths in 2019. Between mid-December 2020 and April 23, 2021, at which point between 95 million and 100 million Americans had received their COVID-19 shots, there were 3,544 reported deaths following COVID vaccination, or about 30 per day
An elevated risk for myocarditis among mRNA COVID-19 vaccinees has been observed, particularly in males aged 12–29 years.[Myocarditis is always fatal.
This means that as of 30th June 2021 the Covid-19 vaccines have caused 1,037,376 adverse reactions and 1,440 deaths, and now they’re coming for your children and want to give booster jabs to the elderly and vulnerable in Autumn. [Has nice comparison with real vaccines as well.]
If you look at the VAERS [vaccine adverse event reporting system], which in my opinion is a piece of garbage … as of today, let’s say says there’s 6,000 deaths associated with taking the vaccine. Well, we need to understand what that actually means,” Zelenko says.

“If you look at the 2009 Harvard study on the VAERS system, they said only 1% of events are actually reported. So, OK … whatever the number is, it’s not 6,000. Maybe only 10% are being reported. I don’t know. But definitely it’s being underreported.
As of March 5, 2021, the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) had received 31,079 adverse reaction reports for COVID-19 vaccines, including 1,551 deaths
OK dickhead.

"Evidentiary weight" and "ceteris paribus" are foreign ideas to you.

CETERIS PARIBUS which individual choice is objectively worse:

A. Vaccination
B. Non-vaccination/COVID

Tally up the numbers, I'll help you count. I am not even going to fight you on "Post hoc ergo propter hoc.". I accept ALL of your evidence.
And because I am a charitable guy I'll concede a bunch more in your favour.

3,544. Lets round up to 10000 to not make you look like a total idiot.
1,440. Lets round up to 10000 to not make you look like a total idiot.
6,000. Lets round up to 10000 to not make you look like a total idiot.
1,551. Lets round up to 10000 to not make you look like a total idiot.

That's 40000 vaccine deaths. Generously rounded up in your favour. But you know - the numbers might be wrong! Because conspiracy!
Lets give you an extra zero and call it 400000 vaccine deaths.

As of today (and on approximations from https://www.bing.com/covid)

COVID has killed 4,163,220 million people.

Do you ever feel like when you are wrong, you are orders of magnitude wrong? On the scale of statistical tone-deafness you aren't just deaf. You are deaf, blind, dumb, mute and intellectually challenged.

If Hiroshima's Little Boy was dropped in your back yard and you somehow survived you still would've missed it.

Philosophers are fucking dumb!
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