The Law of Identity as Strictly "P"

What is the basis for reason? And mathematics?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

The Law of Identity as Strictly "P"

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

The occurence of the same thing, under the same respect and at the same time cannot be observed under multiple instances as the instances necessitate a seperation. P=P necessitates multiple instances of the same thing, thus each observation is a different context.

At best identity should be described simply as "P", not "P=P".
Skepdick
Posts: 14410
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: The Law of Identity as Strictly "P"

Post by Skepdick »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:53 am The occurence of the same thing, under the same respect and at the same time cannot be observed under multiple instances as the instances necessitate a seperation. P=P necessitates multiple instances of the same thing, thus each observation is a different context.

At best identity should be described simply as "P", not "P=P".
It's not even a law. It simply says "P" represents something. It could represent anything and everything.

The law of identity asserts that P = P. The problem arises because the equality operator is binary: it takes two arguments, but there is only one P.
That's why P = P is a meaningless assertion. Where did the second P come from?

It's trivial to see when you re-write P = P as equal(P,P). Where does the second P come from?

Equality is Dyadic. Identity is Monadic
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: The Law of Identity as Strictly "P"

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:48 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:53 am The occurence of the same thing, under the same respect and at the same time cannot be observed under multiple instances as the instances necessitate a seperation. P=P necessitates multiple instances of the same thing, thus each observation is a different context.

At best identity should be described simply as "P", not "P=P".
It's not even a law. It simply says "P" represents something. It could represent anything and everything.

The law of identity asserts that P = P. The problem arises because the equality operator is binary: it takes two arguments, but there is only one P.
That's why P = P is a meaningless assertion. Where did the second P come from?

It's trivial to see when you re-write P = P as equal(P,P). Where does the second P come from?

Equality is Dyadic. Identity is Monadic
The law of identity is a law of representation, it specifies how a phenomenon is identified.

In agreement with the rest.
Skepdick
Posts: 14410
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: The Law of Identity as Strictly "P"

Post by Skepdick »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:01 am The law of identity is a law of representation, it specifies how a phenomenon is identified.
It doesn't specify HOW it is identified. However the phenomenon is identified, it's assigned to the placeholder P

But then things get totally weird in Classical logic...

The identity law is: P is P. A rose is a rose is a rose. So P is a placeholder for a rose.
Then the law of excluded middle (LEM) says: either P is true; or ¬P is true.

What could a true not-rose possibly be like?!?
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: The Law of Identity as Strictly "P"

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Skepdick wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:05 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:01 am The law of identity is a law of representation, it specifies how a phenomenon is identified.
It doesn't specify HOW it is identified. However the phenomenon is identified, it's assigned to the placeholder P

But then things get totally weird in Classical logic...

The identity law is: P is P. A rose is a rose is a rose. So P is a placeholder for a rose.
Then the law of excluded middle (LEM) says: either P is true; or ¬P is true.

What could a true not-rose possibly be like?!?
1. A non rose would be all contexts surrounding the rose.

2. It specifies how it is identified by pointing to the phenomenon. The placeholder is an act of pointing.

But I see your point and would have to agree with most of it.
Post Reply