P=P is a Contradiction

What is the basis for reason? And mathematics?

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raw_thought
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by raw_thought »

Suppose the cat is actually on the mat and I say the cat is on the mat and it is not on the mat. That is a contradiction even tho the cat is actually on the mat. The reality cannot contradict itself but one idea can contradict another IDEA.
Skepdick
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by Skepdick »

raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:41 pm Ahh now I get your confusion. When I say that contradictions cannot exist I mean that only noncontradictory statements reflect reality. When you say that contradictions cannot exist you are saying that no two statements can ever contradict each other.
Of course 2 ideas can contradict each other. But reality cannot.
Ideas are real. Ideas exist as a state of mind.

If ideas can contradict each, then contradictions exist as states of mind.

So I'll ask you again (because not only are you projecting your emotions, you are also projecting your confusion onto me).

Do contradictions exist? Yes or no.
Skepdick
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by Skepdick »

raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:45 pm Suppose the cat is actually on the mat and I say the cat is on the mat and it is not on the mat. That is a contradiction even tho the cat is actually on the mat. The reality cannot contradict itself but one idea can contradict another IDEA.
That's not a contradiction. That's just an incorrect description.
raw_thought
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by raw_thought »

I already answered that! Ideas can contradict each other. Reality cannot. And yes, ideas exist but not in the same way that actual objects do." I can say that vampires exist" yes that idea exists but that does not mean that actual vampires exist.
raw_thought
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by raw_thought »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:47 pm
raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:45 pm Suppose the cat is actually on the mat and I say the cat is on the mat and it is not on the mat. That is a contradiction even tho the cat is actually on the mat. The reality cannot contradict itself but one idea can contradict another IDEA.
That's not a contradiction. That's just an incorrect description.
YES! And IDEAS can be incorrect they can CONTRADICT reality.
Skepdick
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by Skepdick »

raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:50 pm YES! And IDEAS can be incorrect they can CONTRADICT reality.
What the fuck does it even mean to "contradict reality".

Reality is reality. Nothing you SAY about it can DO anything to it.

You say the cat is on the mat.
The cat isn't on the mat.

You described the cat's relationship to the mat incorrectly. Where is this "contradiction"?
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by raw_thought »

Suppose someone says, " It is raining here and now and NO water is falling from the sky." I do not have to go out and check the weather. I already know he is incorrect because reality cannot contradict itself. The IDEA " It is raining here and now and NO water is falling from the sky." can contradict itself. But Reality cannot. It cannot actually be raining and not raining at the same time. The law of contradiction tells me that the statement " It is raining here and now and NO water is falling from the sky." cannot be a description of actual reality.
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by raw_thought »

You wrote,"What the fuck does it even mean to "contradict reality".
if I say that the universe is made of chocolate that contradicts reality.
Skepdick
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by Skepdick »

raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:57 pm Suppose someone says, " It is raining here and now and NO water is falling from the sky.". I do not have to go out and check the weather. I already know he is incorrect because reality cannot contradict itself.
Yes. It's raining AND it's not raining.

It stopped raining.

Where is the problem?

raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:57 pm The IDEA " It is raining here and now and NO water is falling from the sky." can contradict itself.
I don't see a contradiction.

The raining and "no water from sky" are described at different times.

raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:57 pm But Reality cannot. It cannot actually be raining and not raining at the same time. The law of contradiction tells me that the statement " It is raining here and now and NO water is falling from the sky." cannot be a description of actual reality.
It is a description of a reality where it was raining and then it stopped raining.

It's raining.
It's not raining.

I even showed you a damn video demonstrating how that can occur across space.
I am also explaining how it happens across time.
Skepdick
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by Skepdick »

raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:58 pm You wrote,"What the fuck does it even mean to "contradict reality".
if I say that the universe is made of chocolate that contradicts reality.
No, it doesn't.

It's an ontological claim. It's as meaningless as all ontological claims (it's untestable).
Nobody knows what reality is "made of". Some say it's made of "matter" (whatever that is), others say different things.

Your theory is as "valid" a metaphysic as any.

Deep down, beneath the layers of quantum physics it could be made of "chocolate". You don't know.
raw_thought
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by raw_thought »

OK, I am not 100% sure that the universe is not made of chocolate. I am "only" 99.99999999999% sure. Good grief, first you believe that square circles exist, that Einstein"s relativity is bunk and now the universe is made of chocolate. This "debate" is getting too silly.
Skepdick
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by Skepdick »

raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:08 pm OK, I am not 100% sure that the universe is not made of chocolate. I am "only" 99.99999999999% sure. Good grief, first you believe that square circles exist, that Einstein"s relativity is bunk and now the universe is made of chocolate. This "debate" is getting too silly.
Are we back on square circles now?

They do exist. I showed you one. Just because rejected its existence it doesn't go away any more than Sweden would if you rejected it.
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by raw_thought »

Even the article you posted disagrees with you
Skepdick
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by Skepdick »

raw_thought wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:14 pm Even the article you posted disagrees with you
No it didn't.

It disagrees with you, but you can't tell.
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Re: P=P is a Contradiction

Post by raw_thought »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_g ... stance.svg
So you are saying that the green line is not shorter then the red, blue or yellow lines. READ YOUR OWN ARTICLE!
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