Sorry but again I'm slow on the uptake as whilst I think I get the idea of a 'meta-language', i.e. that a formal language is applied to its own objects(I think) I'd also like to know what the difference is between a 'metalanguage' and a 'sematic' for that language? But anyhoo I'm still a bit puzzled here as we are saying P1 is false, i.e. 'pears don't exist' and P2 appears to just be agreeing with that claim and given that they don't exist I'm not surprised it is true?Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:06 amThis is a proposition about pears:Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:20 am I'm not sure of your point here, as for sure if pears don't exist then its false that pears exist and the proposition "Pears exist" will be false?
P1: Pears exist
P1 is false.
This is a proposition about another proposition (P1):
P2: P1 is false
P2 is true.
...
P2 is not the same proposition as 'Pears don't exist'.
Keeping the language/meta language distinction in the back of your head ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalanguage )
P1 is stated in the object language.
P2 is stated in the metalanguage.
It's a primitive form of Encapsulation
Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
- Arising_uk
- Posts: 12314
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am
Re: Intuitionist Double Negation --> Aristotelian P=P --> Double Positives
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
Positives lead to negatives read the op.nothing wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:52 pm P =/= P
root-P = (+) or (-) P
P = (+/-)P
P = *P
_____
*denotes relative variability (+) or (-) allowing for (e)motion)
*P x *P... = (?)P
Let P = (+/-)1
and expand:
four quadrants:i. 1 x 1 = 1
ii. 1 x -1 = -1
iii. -1 x 1 = -1
iv. -1 x -1 = 1
_________
(1 x 1) = (-1 x -1)
i. only positive = positive
ii. negative subject = negative relative result
iii. (inversion of ii) = (same as ii)
iv. only negative = (same as i)
implications:
a. only accumulative subjects implies only accumulative results
b. a negative subject (either) implies only negative results
c. only negative subjects implies only accumulative results
follows
d. 'only accumulative' results come either by way of 'only positive' subjects or 'only negative' subjects.
__________(1 x 1) = (-1 x -1)
viz. a pair of equivalent antithetical dichotomous dipole(s): letter a/aleph/alpha
viz. a theoretically simultaneous-inside-outside view of a single toroid
viz. first fundamental distinction (universal): in(side)/out(side) and second letter b/beis/beta
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wQ5QydF29oU/maxresdefault.jpg
If ignorance is accumulated (ie. as food is eaten/digested), and a and c are both accumulative, whereas b negates, then b is the only 'solution' that allows negation of any/all belief-based ignorance, which demands trial:GENESIS 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
ii. 1 x -1 = -1
iii. -1 x 1 = -1
All knowing is by way of indefinitely trying all belief, but
not all belief is by way of indefinitely trying to know all.
0 I am (willing to...)
-1 KNOW
(+) any/all (creation)
(-) not to (destruction)
+1 BELIEVE
____________________________
-0 KNOW, any/all not to BELIEVE = KNOWLEDGE (Conscious)
+0 BELIEVE, not to any/all KNOW = IGNORANCE (of)
resolves back into P requiring more than just P:
P = *P
wherein P can be viewed from/as one of two directions
(inside-out and/or outside-in)
thus two views of the same subject. Therefor, if P is known,
it can be used to infer/know anything that is not P
by removing what is known of P from the concerned equation.
A short example is "the bluest blue" necessitates a gradation of blue, hence non blues.
The fullest knowledge, results in lesser grades of knowledge, hence belief.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
Not necessarily.Positives lead to negatives read the op.
Perhaps in the 'context' of mathematical operators obeying 'mathematical' law.
"The bluest blue" requires a definite whence gradation(s), hence all else definitely (/ not) a gradation therefrom.A short example is "the bluest blue" necessitates a gradation of blue, hence non blues.
And not necessarily.The fullest knowledge, results in lesser grades of knowledge, hence belief.
The "fullest knowledge" is fully absent belief and results in grades of belief-based ignorance(s), hence belief being required for belief-based ignorance(s) for lacking knowledge in the first place (!).
Lesser grades of knowledge are lesser knowledge(s) as they apply to the uncertainty of belief(s).
As one knows more of any/all degrees of uncertainty of a particular belief(s), they become more knowledgeable.
As one tends towards belief-based ignorance, one tends towards less knowledge of uncertainty of belief, hence suffering.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
nothing wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:12 pmNot necessarily.Positives lead to negatives read the op.
Perhaps in the 'context' of mathematical operators obeying 'mathematical' law.
And you don't quantify in your theorem?
"The bluest blue" requires a definite whence gradation(s), hence all else definitely (/ not) a gradation therefrom.A short example is "the bluest blue" necessitates a gradation of blue, hence non blues.
Speak English. The bluest blue necessitates various grades of blue, hence various non-blues.
And not necessarily.The fullest knowledge, results in lesser grades of knowledge, hence belief.
Yes necessarily.
The "fullest knowledge" is fully absent belief and results in grades of belief-based ignorance(s), hence belief being required for belief-based ignorance(s) for lacking knowledge in the first place (!).
Lesser grades of knowledge are lesser knowledge(s) as they apply to the uncertainty of belief(s).
As one knows more of any/all degrees of uncertainty of a particular belief(s), they become more knowledgeable.
As one tends towards belief-based ignorance, one tends towards less knowledge of uncertainty of belief, hence suffering.
As knowledge increases in grades so does belief. Infinite grades of knowledge results in infinite beliefs.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
No, actually. That is what is so beautiful about it.And you don't quantify in your theorem?
Why demand what is already being done? The bluest blue necessitates various grades of blue if gradients exist, but not necessarily non-blues.Speak English. The bluest blue necessitates various grades of blue, hence various non-blues.
(!)Yes necessarily.
A volume of knowledge is measured by the absence of belief-based ignorance.As knowledge increases in grades so does belief. Infinite grades of knowledge results in infinite beliefs.
All-knowing is absent belief, thus any gradation derived therefrom involves belief-based ignorance(s).
If we say the bluest blue is knowledge, in order for there to be any else but bluest blue, there must be a gradation therefrom. This would be belief-based ignorance(s).
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
nothing wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:30 pmNo, actually. That is what is so beautiful about it.And you don't quantify in your theorem?
Good then you can count out the variables then.
Why demand what is already being done? The bluest blue necessitates various grades of blue if gradients exist, but not necessarily non-blues.Speak English. The bluest blue necessitates various grades of blue, hence various non-blues.
(!)Yes necessarily.
Did I stutter?
A volume of knowledge is measured by the absence of belief-based ignorance.As knowledge increases in grades so does belief. Infinite grades of knowledge results in infinite beliefs.
All-knowing is absent belief, thus any gradation derived therefrom involves belief-based ignorance(s).
Thus ignorance and knowledge are simultaneous and inseperable from a higher context.
If we say the bluest blue is knowledge, in order for there to be any else but bluest blue, there must be a gradation therefrom. This would be belief-based ignorance(s).
And this gradation occurs with knowledge. Knowledge is over rated.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
Nope: they need to be there to allow for any/all and *not to* (ie. creation/destruction) as "stuff" happens in-between.Good then you can count out the variables then.
Not to my knowledge, but confidence without clarity is similarly debilitating.Did I stutter?
Not that they are inseparable (!) from a higher context: fully distinguishable in any higher context. Their conflation exists locally in the being *P who can either tend towards +P or -P, the latter being the higher context that allows knowledge of any/all +P thus to neutralize.Thus ignorance and knowledge are simultaneous and inseperable from a higher context.
The gradation occurs with belief-based ignorance, not knowledge. You have it the wrong-way-around.And this gradation occurs with knowledge. Knowledge is over rated.
All-knowing could be a 'default' state of creation whence any/all beings, for whatever reason(s), are less this state: the same as +P attaining to (or not attaining to) -P.
Belief is thus over-rated: it takes a believer to believe themselves to be something they are not, thus unconsciously practically defining their own looping tautology rooted in nothing but the illusion of themselves. This is the 'default state' of ignorant people who merely believe they are to-be instead of knowing they are (not) to-be.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
nothing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:25 amNope: they need to be there to allow for any/all and *not to* (ie. creation/destruction) as "stuff" happens in-between.Good then you can count out the variables then.
Then you are stuck quantifying reality then.
Not to my knowledge, but confidence without clarity is similarly debilitating.Did I stutter?
Clarity without confidence has the same effect as well. You cannot seperate one from the other.
Not that they are inseparable (!) from a higher context: fully distinguishable in any higher context. Their conflation exists locally in the being *P who can either tend towards +P or -P, the latter being the higher context that allows knowledge of any/all +P thus to neutralize.Thus ignorance and knowledge are simultaneous and inseperable from a higher context.
P as tending towards a positive or negative necessitates P as both positive and negative.
The gradation occurs with belief-based ignorance, not knowledge. You have it the wrong-way-around.And this gradation occurs with knowledge. Knowledge is over rated.
All-knowing could be a 'default' state of creation whence any/all beings, for whatever reason(s), are less this state: the same as +P attaining to (or not attaining to) -P.
If no gradation in knowledge occurs, it does not fragment, then you "know it all" then?
Belief is thus over-rated: it takes a believer to believe themselves to be something they are not, thus unconsciously practically defining their own looping tautology rooted in nothing but the illusion of themselves. This is the 'default state' of ignorant people who merely believe they are to-be instead of knowing they are (not) to-be.
And do you believe people understand your position?
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
That is what the reality is: putting a value on human life, for example.Then you are stuck quantifying reality then.
It is called religion. It relies on belief-based ignorance(s).
Clarity requires absence of, thus inverse effect.Clarity without confidence has the same effect as well. You cannot seperate one from the other.
In rage = confidence without clarity
Our of rage = clarity without "confidence"
confidence is not a virtue: knowing its weakness(es) is.
It's the default 'state' -P: +P is any local anomaly relative to an otherwise "balanced" 'state' -P.P as tending towards a positive or negative necessitates P as both positive and negative.
Conscious Knowledge of Ignorance (Inference) Theorem (CKIIT) does not assume that 'neutral' is "between" (+) and (-).
CKIIT allows -P to be 'neutral' whereas +P is any/all polarization. Abel and Cain.
Each is their own anomaly according to how much they "polarize" and how much they know (not to believe) one is not as one seems.
P =/= P
P = *P
If one knows "all" there is to know: of themselves, there is nothing/no-being that can not be "known": in relation to.If no gradation in knowledge occurs, it does not fragment, then you "know it all" then?
For example +P has a definite relationship with -P.
Definite as a property is is.
Is not collapses "definitude(s)".
2 I believe...
-1 I believe not...
I
+1 I know...
-2 I know not...
+P = body of ignorance(s)
+2 I believe...(any/all belief-based ignorance)
+1 I know...(any/all)
-P = all-knowing
-1 I believe not (in knowing...)
-2 I know not (to believe...)
No - concerned people understanding my position is not a thing I (even care to) speculate about: either I know they do viz. degrees to which, or do not. I treat time/interaction as I would any currency: I 'have' time, and thus choose what occupies 'my time'. However I acknowledge there is others' time as well: others have 'their' own 'time' and whence any/all converge is always 'now'. The interaction thus merits itself by way of time: if they have the time to try to understand it, I have the time to try to understand their understanding of it. It's give-and-take.And do you believe people understand your position?
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
nothing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:54 pmThat is what the reality is: putting a value on human life, for example.Then you are stuck quantifying reality then.
It is called religion. It relies on belief-based ignorance(s).
So math is a religion if it acts as value placement?
Clarity requires absence of, thus inverse effect.Clarity without confidence has the same effect as well. You cannot seperate one from the other.
In rage = confidence without clarity
Our of rage = clarity without "confidence"
confidence is not a virtue: knowing its weakness(es) is.
There is no virtue that stands alone which can be properly spoken of.
It's the default 'state' -P: +P is any local anomaly relative to an otherwise "balanced" 'state' -P.P as tending towards a positive or negative necessitates P as both positive and negative.
Conscious Knowledge of Ignorance (Inference) Theorem (CKIIT) does not assume that 'neutral' is "between" (+) and (-).
Void is between positive and negative, as it is the point of inversion between on and the other. The standard number line is the easiest example of this.
CKIIT allows -P to be 'neutral' whereas +P is any/all polarization. Abel and Cain.
Each is their own anomaly according to how much they "polarize" and how much they know (not to believe) one is not as one seems.
P =/= P
P = *P
If one knows "all" there is to know: of themselves, there is nothing/no-being that can not be "known": in relation to.If no gradation in knowledge occurs, it does not fragment, then you "know it all" then?
The self is empty of its own nature, it is merely a form or vessel.
For example +P has a definite relationship with -P.
Definite as a property is is.
Is not collapses "definitude(s)".
2 I believe...
-1 I believe not...
I
+1 I know...
-2 I know not...
+P = body of ignorance(s)
+2 I believe...(any/all belief-based ignorance)
+1 I know...(any/all)
-P = all-knowing
-1 I believe not (in knowing...)
-2 I know not (to believe...)
No - concerned people understanding my position is not a thing I (even care to) speculate about: either I know they do viz. degrees to which, or do not.And do you believe people understand your position?
Or they sort of know.
I treat time/interaction as I would any currency: I 'have' time, and thus choose what occupies 'my time'. However I acknowledge there is others' time as well: others have 'their' own 'time' and whence any/all converge is always 'now'. The interaction thus merits itself by way of time: if they have the time to try to understand it, I have the time to try to understand their understanding of it. It's give-and-take.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
It certainly can be: General Relativity is considered by me to be something "religious".So math is a religion if it acts as value placement?
Protons/electrons are "ends" of any electrostatic line(s) of force: they have no physical existence / mass: their apparent mass is a function of their velocity in/of the lines of force.
This is an assumption: it is not necessarily.Void is between positive and negative, as it is the point of inversion between on and the other. The standard number line is the easiest example of this.
If so, belief in/as any otherwise is ignorant.The self is empty of its own nature, it is merely a form or vessel.
"degrees to which" = "sort of know"Or they sort of know.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
nothing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:17 pmIt certainly can be: General Relativity is considered by me to be something "religious".So math is a religion if it acts as value placement?
Protons/electrons are "ends" of any electrostatic line(s) of force: they have no physical existence / mass: their apparent mass is a function of their velocity in/of the lines of force.
So as having value placement your stance can be considered a religion as well.
This is an assumption: it is not necessarily.Void is between positive and negative, as it is the point of inversion between on and the other. The standard number line is the easiest example of this.
Actually it is necessary.
If so, belief in/as any otherwise is ignorant.The self is empty of its own nature, it is merely a form or vessel.
Knowledge is empty in and of itself. It is a point of view.
"degrees to which" = "sort of know"Or they sort of know.
So they can both know and not know.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
There is no fixed 'value' placement anywhere in CKIIT.So as having value placement your stance can be considered a religion as well.
To each their own.Actually it is necessary.
It is your point of view.Knowledge is empty in and of itself. It is a point of view.
Glass half full half empty.So they can both know and not know.
If/when more than one angle (requires: known of) whence to observe,
assuming multiple angles clarifies definition.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
nothing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:24 pmThere is no fixed 'value' placement anywhere in CKIIT.So as having value placement your stance can be considered a religion as well.
P is a fixed variable.
To each their own.Actually it is necessary.
No.
It is your point of view.Knowledge is empty in and of itself. It is a point of view.
That is also your point of view, thus viewpoint is absolute.
Glass half full half empty.So they can both know and not know.
False, just a glass with water in it.
If/when more than one angle (requires: known of) whence to observe,
assuming multiple angles clarifies definition.
Point paradox.
Re: Double Negation --> P=P --> Double Positives
There is no "P" in CKIIT.P is a fixed variable.
CKIIT develops P =/= P.
P = *P
...ly pointless.That is also your point of view, thus viewpoint is absolute....
False, just a glass with water in it.
If it is half-empty half-full, it has a property(s) otherwise absent as with any arbitrary amount of water.
That there is no real "point" makes the paradox.Point paradox.