Page 1 of 6

Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:07 am
by Logik
Implementation in Python

https://repl.it/@LogikLogicus/ShatteredIdentity



Counter-intuitive result

Code: Select all

A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
Sanity prevails!

A = A is True
A = А is False
А = A is False
А = А is True
Insanity returns!
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - but it's not a duck!

Summon all your "experts" !!!! We have a situation here!

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:46 am
by Age
Illogical insanity has surely returned.

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:55 pm
by roydop
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:07 am Implementation in Python

https://repl.it/@LogikLogicus/ShatteredIdentity
Counter-intuitive result

Code: Select all

A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
Sanity prevails!

B = B is True
B = В is False
В = B is False
В = В is True
Insanity returns!
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - but it's not a duck!

Summon all your "experts" !!!! We have a situation here!
Can you state your point in every day language please?
Also, how does it actually apply to my life?

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:02 pm
by roydop
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:07 am Implementation in Python

https://repl.it/@LogikLogicus/ShatteredIdentity
Counter-intuitive result

Code: Select all

A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
Sanity prevails!

B = B is True
B = В is False
В = B is False
В = В is True
Insanity returns!
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - but it's not a duck!

Summon all your "experts" !!!! We have a situation here!
No matter how engaged a person's mind is following whatever system this is, a child could see it's a waste of energy. Why not just stay at A?

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:07 pm
by Logik
roydop wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:02 pm
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:07 am Implementation in Python

https://repl.it/@LogikLogicus/ShatteredIdentity
Counter-intuitive result

Code: Select all

A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
Sanity prevails!

B = B is True
B = В is False
В = B is False
В = В is True
Insanity returns!
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - but it's not a duck!

Summon all your "experts" !!!! We have a situation here!
No matter how engaged a person's mind is following whatever system this is, a child could see it's a waste of energy. Why not just stay at A?
OK. Sticking to A: https://repl.it/@LogikLogicus/ShatteredIdentity

Code: Select all

A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
Sanity prevails!

A = A is True
A = А is False
А = A is False
А = А is True
Insanity returns!
In English: things are NOT as they seem. Direct experience is an illusion.

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:43 pm
by roydop
I agree 100%.

There is a misinterpretation somewhere fundamental.

The use of the word "identity" in your title is very telling.

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:39 pm
by Eodnhoj7
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:07 am Implementation in Python

https://repl.it/@LogikLogicus/ShatteredIdentity
Counter-intuitive result

Code: Select all

A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
Sanity prevails!

B = B is True
B = В is False
В = B is False
В = В is True
Insanity returns!
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - but it's not a duck!

Summon all your "experts" !!!! We have a situation here!
I have learned to caution myself of insulting/accusing other's precisely because it effectively cycles back on me as an extension of me.

In your case you did not really "insult" me but rather "accused" me of using the principle of explosion...it looks like you are just projecting your perspective.

Python is just the language of a technological serpent strangling us all...

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:42 pm
by Logik
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:39 pm I have learned to caution myself of insulting/accusing other's precisely because it effectively cycles back on me as an extension of me.
Yeah, but I want to be wrong...

So, somewhere, somewhen somebody will find a gap in this line of reasoning. And then we progress again! Steel sharpens steel.

That is precisely the point! Isn't this what you said? With everything you say the beast grows ;)

Positive feedback loop.... Errors are just learning.

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:56 pm
by Eodnhoj7
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:42 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:39 pm I have learned to caution myself of insulting/accusing other's precisely because it effectively cycles back on me as an extension of me.
Yeah, but I want to be wrong...

So, somewhere, somewhen somebody will find a gap in this line of reasoning. And then we progress again!

That is precisely the point! Isn't this what you said? With everything you say the beast grows ;)

In agreement if that is your stance, all contradictions are an absence of completion. No fault in logic there.

Positive feedback loop.... Errors are just learning.
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
Sanity prevails!

B = B is True
B = В is False
В = B is False
В = В is True
Insanity returns!


There are an infinite ways to deal with this problem, as we have a serious symbol grounding problem. Short five minute argument:

B=B is true as constantly (static) recursive statement in which all statements are extensions of the same identity property (B=B)=A

B=B is false when it exists as isomorphic (The symbol "=" exists as the isomorphism of 1 "B" and "Many" "B"...ie; B and B=B are different entirely)

B=B is false when it is an isomorphic point of inversion ((B=B) results in C or A as (B=B)="or" and "or" effectively is a logical diverger resulting in isomorphism because of its grounding in a symmetrical duals.

B=B is a relativistically (dynamically progressing) recursive statement in which all statements are dynamically changing (((B=B)=A)=C)=...

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:10 am
by Logik
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:56 pm In agreement if that is your stance, all contradictions are an absence of completion. No fault in logic there.
If it wasn't for man's ego - this would be a losing strategy. Alas - we are in luck ;)

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:44 pm
by Eodnhoj7
Logik wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:10 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:56 pm In agreement if that is your stance, all contradictions are an absence of completion. No fault in logic there.
If it wasn't for man's ego - this would be a losing strategy. Alas - we are in luck ;)
False, because you are using "ego" as a law of identity that is constant; Ego=Ego

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:58 pm
by roydop
roydop wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:02 pm
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:07 am Implementation in Python

https://repl.it/@LogikLogicus/ShatteredIdentity
Counter-intuitive result

Code: Select all

A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
Sanity prevails!

B = B is True
B = В is False
В = B is False
В = В is True
Insanity returns!
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - but it's not a duck!

Summon all your "experts" !!!! We have a situation here!
No matter how engaged a person's mind is following whatever system this is, a child could see it's a waste of energy. Why not just stay at A?
No one wants to tackle this one?

Maybe because it would render all of this intellectual masturbation utterly useless. And that would be a hard red pill to swallow.

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:09 pm
by Eodnhoj7
roydop wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:58 pm
roydop wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:02 pm
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:07 am Implementation in Python

https://repl.it/@LogikLogicus/ShatteredIdentity
Counter-intuitive result

Code: Select all

A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
A = A is True
Sanity prevails!

B = B is True
B = В is False
В = B is False
В = В is True
Insanity returns!
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - but it's not a duck!

Summon all your "experts" !!!! We have a situation here!
No matter how engaged a person's mind is following whatever system this is, a child could see it's a waste of energy. Why not just stay at A?
No one wants to tackle this one?

Maybe because it would render all of this intellectual masturbation utterly useless. And that would be a hard red pill to swallow.
Actually it observes the language being used is actually a source of contradiction. The op does not take into account the "variable" of "python" as the assumed axiom from which the language progresses.

It may be argued that "python" itself is subject to an identity crisis.

It does not take into account that B=T/F simultaneously; which observes what I already observed in the prime directive where all axiom are simultaneously true and false at the same time.

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:40 pm
by roydop
It does not take into account that B=T/F simultaneously; which observes what I already observed in the prime directive where all axiom are simultaneously true and false at the same time.
I agree. So there is no base within the system of thought. A system with no base is a ponzi scheme.

This applies to self identity as well.

Can anyone spot any signs of identity crisis within humanity? Hence our destruction.

There is an Absolute. It's you. Just not the you you think you are or the you you sense. When it is discovered (space between thought and "under" sensations) there is completion and contentment.

Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:48 pm
by Eodnhoj7
roydop wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:40 pm
It does not take into account that B=T/F simultaneously; which observes what I already observed in the prime directive where all axiom are simultaneously true and false at the same time.
I agree. So there is no base within the system of thought. A system with no base is a ponzi scheme.

This applies to self identity as well.

Can anyone spot any signs of identity crisis within humanity? Hence our destruction.

There is an Absolute. It's you. Just not the you you think you are or the you you sense. When it is discovered (space between thought and "under" sensations) there is completion and contentment.
Absolute Truth can be observed through "unity" as all order stems from "unity".

Relativitistic truth can be observed through "units/multiplicity" where one part exists in relation to another and is incomplete in and of itself; this is an approximation of "unity" where the "One" is observed through multiple units of "1".

Synthetic truth can be observed as the One joining itself through the Many (a series of white points moving through eachother as 1 point considering each dot is the same point) and the "many" canceling itself out through the "one".

There is absolute truth, this absolute truth is observed approximately as relative truths, the one truth is observed through the joining of the many truths.

Identity is Absolute, Relativistic and Synthetic where each exist as 1 in themselves and through eachother as 3.