Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

What is the basis for reason? And mathematics?

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Logik
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:24 pm So is that your goal, to provide a language game? "X" means "Y"...and you are trying to kill philosophy? Good luck.
Well, have a look at your own thread on "The failure of postmodernism".

I have 2 philosophers now who are opposing my claim: I know that murder is wrong.

Now, you go and convince yourself that philosophy is good for anything but linguistic sophistry when something so trivial as the wrongness of murder is being challenged on the basis of "definitions".
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Logik wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:28 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:24 pm So is that your goal, to provide a language game? "X" means "Y"...and you are trying to kill philosophy? Good luck.
Well, have a look at your own thread on "The failure of postmodernism".

I have 2 philosophers now who are opposing my claim: I know that murder is wrong.

No, I am opposing that fact you claim murder is wrong, then say truth and morality are seperate...the argument you present is schizophrenic.

Now, you go and convince yourself that philosophy is good for anything but linguistic sophistry when something so trivial as the wrongness of murder is being challenged on the basis of "definitions".

You are a programmer...who makes up stuff...your job is pure sophistry. Save the projections, it is becoming predictable and you are beginning to lose the edge you once had.
Logik
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:33 pm No, I am opposing that fact you claim murder is wrong, then say truth and morality are seperate...the argument you present is schizophrenic.
Do you understand how mirroring works? Do you understand how getting you to understand a concept requires me to deconstruct something first THEN put it back together?

The "putting back together" is the step you keep missing! You are like wrecking ball - all strength, zero judgment.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:33 pm You are a programmer...who makes up stuff...your job is pure sophistry. Save the projections, it is becoming predictable and you are beginning to lose the edge you once had.
You too?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

OK. I want to hear you say it - loud and clear!

I guess, I am just a sophist and you aren't So I want you to reject any knowledge of the wrongness of murder.

Say it so that it's on record.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Logik wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:39 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:33 pm No, I am opposing that fact you claim murder is wrong, then say truth and morality are seperate...the argument you present is schizophrenic.
Do you understand how mirroring works? Do you understand how getting you to understand a concept requires me to deconstruct something first THEN put it back together?

The "putting back together" is the step you keep missing! You are like wrecking ball - all strength, zero judgment.


Do you understand how mirroring works? It is the repetition and inversion of a phenomenon...universal laws that apply to the person applying them. You are strictly the extension of a deterministic chain, choice is a pattern which is repeatable as it is grounded in "divergence" and "convergence"...spatial phenomenon within all other phenomenon.

You can argue "All is free will" under which case the "chaos" you are arguing against is strictly the free will of others.


Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:33 pm You are a programmer...who makes up stuff...your job is pure sophistry. Save the projections, it is becoming predictable and you are beginning to lose the edge you once had.
You too?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

OK. I want to hear you say it - loud and clear!

I guess, I am just a sophist and you aren't So I want you to reject any knowledge of the wrongness of murder.

Say it so that it's on record.

Golden rule as grounded in geometry thread..."you reap what you sow."
Logik
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:52 pm Golden rule as grounded in geometry thread..."you reap what you sow."

Good! Tell me how you used geometry to make this assertion: I KNOW THAT MURDER IS WRONG.

Also help Immanuel Can't and Walker, because they can't work their way to that position with logic.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Logik wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:54 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:52 pm Golden rule as grounded in geometry thread..."you reap what you sow."

Good! Tell me how you used geometry to make this assertion: I KNOW THAT MURDER IS WRONG.

Also help Immanuel Can't and Walker, because they can't work their way to that position with logic.


Reciprocation (Cyclical nature of Golden Rule).

I kill another person, that person whose consciousness is grounded in the same space I am in (considering all consciousness is grounded in point space) exists as an extension of me, and effectively I am killing myself in many different degrees.

Ratios. Murder is the act of seperation that is not proportional to the actions (time fundamentally, as all actions are composed of time) being committed; hence an absense of unity is observed, where all unity is derived from "balance". Balance is structure as all structure stems from and exists through a center point. This center point is fundamentally the "divine spark" or "light of reason" as "1d point space" through which all creation, specifically the human constitution, exists as an extension of. Because the divine spark cannot be killed, it can only be divided, murder is akin to the promulgation of division through an irrational act equivalent to "voiding" or "negating".

Etc. I can go further if you wish.
Logik
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:07 pm I kill another person, that person whose consciousness is grounded in the same space I am in (considering all consciousness is grounded in point space) exists as an extension of me, and effectively I am killing myself in many different degrees.
I see. So your argument is grounded in the fact that killing yourself is wrong? Therefore killing another person is wrong because killing self is wrong.

Where does this leave you on the topic of assisted suicide and euthanasia?

If suicide is right, then murder is right also? Oooops ! :)
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Logik wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:09 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:07 pm I kill another person, that person whose consciousness is grounded in the same space I am in (considering all consciousness is grounded in point space) exists as an extension of me, and effectively I am killing myself in many different degrees.
I see. So your argument is grounded in the fact that killing yourself is wrong? Therefore killing another person is wrong because killing self is wrong.

Where does this leave you on the topic of assisted suicide and euthanasia?

If suicide is right, then murder is right also? Oooops ! :)
False, all phenomenon are axioms which exist through and as further axioms. Murder/Suicide (as murder) is grounded in the negation of "self-evidence", where all phenomenon exist through self-evidence in accords to there nature as fundamentally point space (observe consciousness grounded in point space thread).
Logik
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:13 pm False, all phenomenon are axioms which exist through and as further axioms. Murder/Suicide (as murder) is grounded in the negation of "self-evidence", where all phenomenon exist through self-evidence in accords to there nature as fundamentally point space (observe consciousness grounded in point space thread).
I am not asking you for verbiage. A simple yes/no will suffice.

If Murder is wrong is because it's "killing self". Then it necessitates that "killing self" is wrong.
If suicide is NOT wrong, then murder is also NOT wrong.

That's an error. Because murder is ALWAYS wrong.

Oops. Axiomatic reasoning fails.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Logik wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:16 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:13 pm False, all phenomenon are axioms which exist through and as further axioms. Murder/Suicide (as murder) is grounded in the negation of "self-evidence", where all phenomenon exist through self-evidence in accords to there nature as fundamentally point space (observe consciousness grounded in point space thread).
I am not asking you for more verbiage. A simple yes/no will suffice.

If Murder is wrong is because it's "killing self". Then "killing self" is also wrong.
If suicide is NOT wrong, then murder is also NOT wrong.
A simple yes/no is not just a false dichotomy but the same aristotelian excluded middle you argue is "wrong"...ROFL!!!!!!!!!

ROFL!!!!!!

I cannot answer your question in the framework you pose, as the framework you pose is wrong according to your standards. It is grounded in Aristotelian identity properties.

As to the answer:

Murder is wrong because it is a negation of self-evidence. Self-evidence is the foundation for not just consciousness but the nature of being as all "being" is grounded in point space as an extension of "The One".



Please stay...don't take time off, this is too good.

No wonder so many people are afraid of AI...if this is the "thinking" that is programming it.
Logik
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:22 pm A simple yes/no is not just a false dichotomy but the same aristotelian excluded middle you argue is "wrong"...ROFL!!!!!!!!!

ROFL!!!!!!
You didn't pay attention in Constructive Mathematics, did you? The law of excluded middle is considered on case-by-case basis.

In some contexts the decision-space IS two options. True or false. Right or wrong. Yes or no.
In some contexts the decision-space is NOT two options. Like what color I should paint my house, or what to eat for dinner.

The decision/sample-space mandates whether the law of excluded middle is valid. Context ;)

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:22 pm I cannot answer your question in the framework you pose, as the framework you pose is wrong according to your standards. It is grounded in Aristotelian identity properties.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Please, do explain to all of us - in what framework have you determined the "wrongness" of my standard?

In what framework have you established that "I know murder is wrong" is wrong???

I can't wait to hear this! Because all that I asserted about Aristotelian logic is that it is INCONSISTENT. I never claimed that INCONSISTENCY is WRONG.

Inconsistency is inconsistency.
Last edited by Logik on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Logik wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:25 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:22 pm A simple yes/no is not just a false dichotomy but the same aristotelian excluded middle you argue is "wrong"...ROFL!!!!!!!!!

ROFL!!!!!!
You didn't pay attention in Constructive Mathematics, did you? The law of excluded middle is considered on case-by-case basis.

In some contexts the decision-space IS two options. True or false. Right or wrong. Yes or no.
In some contexts the decision-space is NOT two options. Like what color I should paint my house, or what to eat for dinner.

The decision/sample-space mandates whether the law of excluded middle is valid. Context ;)

So under some contexts Aristotelian Logic is right then?

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:22 pm I cannot answer your question in the framework you pose, as the framework you pose is wrong according to your standards. It is grounded in Aristotelian identity properties.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Please, do explain to all of us - in what framework have you determined the "wrongness" of my standard?

In what framework have you established that "I know murder is wrong" is wrong???

I can't wait to hear this!
Already answered it on other threads.
Logik
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:27 pm Already answered it on other threads.
So let me get that straight. You have contrived a framework which allows you to assert that: "I know murder is wrong." is wrong?

Well, you MUST be a genius then. The kind of genius that shoots himself in the foot with a 12 gauge shotgun.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Logik wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:29 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:27 pm Already answered it on other threads.
So let me get that straight. You have contrived a framework which allows you to assert that: "I know murder is wrong." is wrong?

Well, you MUST be a genius then. The kind of genius that shoots himself in the foot with a 12 gauge shotgun.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Actually it observes a base system of reason where we are not left talking about "our feelings" alone.

Second, I did not contrive the Golden Rule, or the fact it exists as cycles.

Third, you failed to take into account that if the other person is an extension of me...then suicide is killing another person other than yourself as well...
Suicide is still conventional murder.
Logik
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Re: Further demonstration the law of identity is broken (Sophists welcome)

Post by Logik »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:34 pm Suicide is still conventional murder.
See. That's why you are a sophist.

Murder is wrong. Euthenasia is not.
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