The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

What is the basis for reason? And mathematics?

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Logik
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Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:27 pm

Speakpigeon wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:19 pm
Only in modern mathematical so-called "classical logic", something which is neither classical nor logic.
So, not in classical, Aristotelian logic, no. Apples are not oranges.
Great! Express is for us in logic then.

Express for us the abstract notion of apples.
The abstract notion of oranges.
Then compare them to each other to produce "False"

Speakpigeon wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:19 pm
You would need to produce an example here to prove your claim, here.
EB
Your inability to express English into logic is all the evidence we need really.
Aristotelian logic is the LAWS OF THOUGHT. Great!

If Aristotelian logic is THE LAWS of thought then you should be able to translate ALL your English THOUGHTS into logic.
If you can't translate ALL your English into logic, then surely your words are not THOUGHT out? ;)


God forbid you had to express anything dynamic in logic. Your brain will fucking frizzle out!

My fridge was empty so I bought 5 bananas and 3 apples. I ate a bunch of them and now there's 3 bananas and 1 apple left.

https://repl.it/repls/SoggyNavyLivedistro

surreptitious57
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Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:02 pm

Logic wrote:
Express for us the abstract notion of apples
The abstract notion of oranges
Then compare them to each other to produce False
A = APPLES
O = ORANGES

A = A [ TRUE ]
O = O [ TRUE ]
A = O [ FALSE ]
O = A [ FALSE ]

Logik
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:04 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:02 pm
A = APPLES
O = ORANGES
What kind of logical objects are A and O ? Strings ? Sets? Integers? Unknowns?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:02 pm
A = A [ TRUE ]
O = O [ TRUE ]
A = O [ FALSE ]
O = A [ FALSE ]
Great! So far we have

Apples are apples.
Oranges are Oranges.
Apples are not Oranges.
Oranges are not Apples.

Now continue your expression and say

Apples are tasty.
Oranges are tasty.

surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:20 pm

Logic wrote:
What kind of logical objects are A and O ?
A is the set of all apples
O is the set of all oranges

There are no non apples in set A
There are no non oranges in set O

So each set is both finite and closed and has no other members

surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:37 pm

Logic wrote:
Now continue your expression and say

Apples are tasty
Oranges are tasty
A = T [ BETWEEN 0 / I ]
O = T [ BETWEEN 0 / I ]

Logik
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Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:38 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:20 pm
A is the set of all apples
O is the set of all oranges
Awesome. So it is a set!

How many apples are in A ?
How many apples are in O ?

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:39 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:37 pm
Logic wrote:
Now continue your expression and say

Apples are tasty
Oranges are tasty
A = T [ BETWEEN 0 / I ]
O = T [ BETWEEN 0 / I ]
*BEEEEEEEEP* error!

If apples and oranges are equally tasty then....

A = T[1]
O = T[1]
Therefore A = O

BUT you said this just now:

A = O [ FALSE ] <----- contradiction
O = A [ FALSE ] <----- contradiction

Your logic seems to have a lot of sharp edges, eh? I think you need tools that don't explode in your face every 2 minutes...

What you are doing (and what every Aristotelian is doing) is you catch yourself contradicting yourself, then you contrive some simplistic logical expression that resolves the immediate contradiction. Out of sight - out of mind!

Computer science is the study of understanding WHY you keep contradicting yourself. Over. And over. And over. And fixing it as you go along.

surreptitious57
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Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:59 pm

Logic wrote:
If apples and oranges are equally tasty
AT / APPLE TASTE
OT / ORANGE TASTE

AT = AT [ TRUE ]
OT = OT [ TRUE ]
AT = OT [ FALSE ]
OT = AT [ FALSE ]

surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:02 pm

Logic wrote:
How many apples are in A ?
How many apples are in O ?
SET A = ALL APPLES
SET O = ALL ORANGES

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:03 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:59 pm
Logic wrote:
If apples and oranges are equally tasty
AT / APPLE TASTE
OT / ORANGE TASTE

AT = AT [ TRUE ]
OT = OT [ TRUE ]
AT = OT [ FALSE ]
OT = AT [ FALSE ]
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


This is going to get fun to keep track of when I add 100 different objects, with 100 different properties :)

Only 10000 different AT/OT/PT/BT/GT/AS/ED/EF symbols to keep in hour head.
And I don't even know what you are going to do when you run out of alphabet after then 676th permutation.

Great logic you have there! And so much damn work just to avoid one teensy contradiction!

Me - I am a dumb, lazy fuck who likes simple things. Your logic is not for me...

surreptitious57
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Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:12 pm

Like I already said this is not suitable for computer language / mathematical algorithms
Because it is too subjective for machines which can only think logically not emotionally

Logik
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Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:20 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:12 pm
Like I already said this is not suitable for computer language / mathematical algorithms
Because it is too subjective for machines which can only think logically not emotionally
That's just Apologetics.

I showed you a logic which works on computers.

It's much easier for a human to read/understand it than your logic.

anne
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:26 am

Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by anne » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:47 pm

Fact is your maths ends in contradiction

http://gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/wp ... ssible.pdf

1 is a finite number it stops
A finite decimal is one that stops, like 0.157
A non-finite decimal like 0.999... does not stop
when a finite number 1 = a non-finite number 0.999.. then maths ends in contradiction

another way
1 is an integer a whole number
0.888... is a non-integer it is not a whole number
0.999... is a non-integer not a whole number
when a integer 1 =a non-integer 0.999... maths ends in contradiction

Mathematics by ending in contradiction your classical logic proves you can prove anything in maths ie Fermat's last theorem or disprove Fermat's last theorem

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Speakpigeon
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Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by Speakpigeon » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:13 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:27 pm
Speakpigeon wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:19 pm
Only in modern mathematical so-called "classical logic", something which is neither classical nor logic.
So, not in classical, Aristotelian logic, no. Apples are not oranges.
Great! Express is for us in logic then.
Express for us the abstract notion of apples.
The abstract notion of oranges.
Then compare them to each other to produce "False"
Why for?
You don't "compare" in logic.
You're a total ignoramus.
I already told you how to do it but your attention span isn't too good. I'm not going to repeat myself.
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:27 pm
If Aristotelian logic is THE LAWS of thought then you should be able to translate ALL your English THOUGHTS into logic.
If you can't translate ALL your English into logic, then surely your words are not THOUGHT out? ;)
You've really no idea what you're talking about. You're just a waste time.
Have a nice day.
EB

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The death of Classical logic and the birth of Constructive Mathematics

Post by Logik » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:38 pm

Speakpigeon wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:13 pm
Why for?
You don't "compare" in logic.
You're a total ignoramus.
Huh?

If logic is the laws of thought. And you don't compare in logic then what DO you "compare" in?
How do you tell the DIFFERENCE between two things? How do you tell that a Cat is not a Dog?
Speakpigeon wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:13 pm
I already told you how to do it but your attention span isn't too good. I'm not going to repeat myself.
Indeed. You said that "knowledge just happens" or something thereabout.

So if your brain can help you tell the difference between things then you should have no problem responding to this challenge: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=26199

Surely your brain can do this for you.
Speakpigeon wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:13 pm
You've really no idea what you're talking about. You're just a waste time.
Have a nice day.
EB
I am not wasting your time. I am making a fool out of you by showing you that knowledge doesn't "just happen".
You have to WORK for it!!!!

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=26199

But of course you won't do it because you have realized that you are in over your head and you have to save face now ;)

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