Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

What is the basis for reason? And mathematics?

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Arising_uk
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Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Arising_uk » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:22 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:12 pm
Premise 1. John is human ( A = C )
Premise 2. Jane is human ( B = C )

By the transitive property: John is Jane (A = B)

You can now go and blame Aristotle for identity politics...
Shouldn't we be blaming mathematicians?
As in predicate logic you'd just be saying;

human(John).
human(Jane).
Not sure how'd you get John is Jane from this?

Atla
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Atla » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:22 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:10 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:09 pm
What lies beyond monism is pretty off topic here.
OK. but you aren't beyond monism.

You are on the wrong side of Cartesian dualism.

You can't even read a 3 line argument without splitting it into parts.
You'll probably turn the universe into chopped mince.
Again: most people's brains process context.

So they will normally interpret "is" two different ways in those 3 lines.

That's normal.

This has pretty much nothing to do with Cartesian dualism or monism, no idea where you got that from.

We CAN interpret "is" only one way. You actually are that stupid to believe that people can't do that if they want to?

Except then all communication in English (or pretty much any other language that uses both hemispheres of the human mind) breaks down, becomes unusable.

Do you get it now?

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:39 pm

Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:22 pm
Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:10 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:09 pm
What lies beyond monism is pretty off topic here.
OK. but you aren't beyond monism.

You are on the wrong side of Cartesian dualism.

You can't even read a 3 line argument without splitting it into parts.
You'll probably turn the universe into chopped mince.
Again: most people's brains process context.

So they will normally interpret "is" two different ways in those 3 lines.

That's normal.

This has pretty much nothing to do with Cartesian dualism or monism, no idea where you got that from.

We CAN interpret "is" only one way. You actually are that stupid to believe that people can't do that if they want to?

Except then all communication in English (or pretty much any other language that uses both hemispheres of the human mind) breaks down, becomes unusable.

Do you get it now?
I'll start another thread so we can fix the bug in your brain. And so that you can understand that context-switching is directly related to monism/pluralism.

For now - this is the problem with your "solution'

P1. John is human ( A ∈ C )
P2. Jane is Human ( B ∈ C )
P3. John is Jane ( A ∈ B )

Ooops!

Atla
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Atla » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:42 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:39 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:22 pm
Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:10 pm

OK. but you aren't beyond monism.

You are on the wrong side of Cartesian dualism.

You can't even read a 3 line argument without splitting it into parts.
You'll probably turn the universe into chopped mince.
Again: most people's brains process context.

So they will normally interpret "is" two different ways in those 3 lines.

That's normal.

This has pretty much nothing to do with Cartesian dualism or monism, no idea where you got that from.

We CAN interpret "is" only one way. You actually are that stupid to believe that people can't do that if they want to?

Except then all communication in English (or pretty much any other language that uses both hemispheres of the human mind) breaks down, becomes unusable.

Do you get it now?
I'll start another thread so we can fix the bug in your brain. And so that you can understand that context-switching is directly related to monism/pluralism.

For now - this is the problem with your "solution'

P1. John is human ( A ∈ C )
P2. Jane is Human ( B ∈ C )
P3. John is Jane ( A ∈ B )

Ooops!
Looks like you don't have the ability to understand the above in some way.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:46 pm

Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:42 pm
Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:39 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:22 pm

Again: most people's brains process context.

So they will normally interpret "is" two different ways in those 3 lines.

That's normal.

This has pretty much nothing to do with Cartesian dualism or monism, no idea where you got that from.

We CAN interpret "is" only one way. You actually are that stupid to believe that people can't do that if they want to?

Except then all communication in English (or pretty much any other language that uses both hemispheres of the human mind) breaks down, becomes unusable.

Do you get it now?
I'll start another thread so we can fix the bug in your brain. And so that you can understand that context-switching is directly related to monism/pluralism.

For now - this is the problem with your "solution'

P1. John is human ( A ∈ C )
P2. Jane is Human ( B ∈ C )
P3. John is Jane ( A ∈ B )

Ooops!
Looks like you don't have the ability to understand the above in some way.
I understood everything you said Just fine.

Did you understand what I said?

There is a bug in your brain. Nature made an error. I am the upgraded version.

Atla
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Atla » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:50 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:46 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:42 pm
Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:39 pm

I'll start another thread so we can fix the bug in your brain. And so that you can understand that context-switching is directly related to monism/pluralism.

For now - this is the problem with your "solution'

P1. John is human ( A ∈ C )
P2. Jane is Human ( B ∈ C )
P3. John is Jane ( A ∈ B )

Ooops!
Looks like you don't have the ability to understand the above in some way.
I understood everything you said Just fine.

Did you understand what I said?

There is a bug in your brain. Nature made an error. I am the upgraded version.
No, the bug is in your brain.

I can use both hemispheres if I want to, and I can also use a monist logic if I want to.

That's why formal logic was invented for example.

I can do both, you only know the latter.

You are an unfortunate downgrade. Do you get it now?

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:52 pm

Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:50 pm
No, the bug is in your brain.
No, snowflake. You are switching contexts on a 3-sentence paragraph.

Can you say "inconsistent" ?

Atla
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Atla » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:58 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:52 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:50 pm
No, the bug is in your brain.
No, snowflake. You are switching contexts on a 3-sentence paragraph.

Can you say "inconsistent" ?
It's consistent with the consensus language which is English. You are the odd one here.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:02 pm

Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:58 pm
It's consistent with the consensus language which is English. You are the odd one here.
So? You are part of the mass-delusion.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:04 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:22 pm
human(John).
human(Jane).
Not sure how'd you get John is Jane from this?
That's the problem. You can't.

"John is human" and "John is Jane" are both grammatically correct even though unsound.

But if you are translating John is human to human(John), why aren't you translating "John is Jane" as Jane(John).
Last edited by Logik on Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Atla
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Atla » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:04 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:02 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:58 pm
It's consistent with the consensus language which is English. You are the odd one here.
So? You are part of the mass-delusion.
What mass-delusion. Again: people can switch to formal logic if they want to.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:05 pm

Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:04 pm
What mass-delusion. Again: people can switch to formal logic if they want to.
Theists and atheists can switch to agnosticism too if they want to.

That mass-delusion.

Atla
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Atla » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:09 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:05 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:04 pm
What mass-delusion. Again: people can switch to formal logic if they want to.
Theists and atheists can switch to agnosticism too if they want to.

That mass-delusion.
I don't see the parallel

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Logik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:12 pm

Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:09 pm
I don't see the parallel
Iterative self-improvement.

Find bug in reasoning -> fix bug in reasoning.

Atla
Posts: 2490
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Let me convince you that none of you are Classical logicians!

Post by Atla » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:18 pm

Logik wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:12 pm
Atla wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:09 pm
I don't see the parallel
Iterative self-improvement.

Find bug in reasoning -> fix bug in reasoning.
What bug in reasoning. Every half-decent thinker uses formal logic as a basis.

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