Good point. When you persuade SpankPenguin that the therefore must act as a turnstile and indicate actual entailment, you probably deserve a prize yourself.Logik wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:12 pmThat is necessary but insufficient.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:39 pm If you want your collection of statements to add up to a deductive argument that could be valid you must formulate it such that the conclusion is dependent on the premises.
You must also structure the argument in such a way so that it's impossible for the conclusion to be false when the premises are true.
As soon as you produce such an argument, please claim your Nobel Prize in Physics for having discovered The Theory of Everything.
Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
I suspect they're the same. There is no argument, just a bunch of indefinite suppositions.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:04 pm This thread is explicitly about the soundness of the argument, not the soundness of Speakpigeon.
Exactly!If you can't get yourself to address the topic, go play in the courtyard.
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
This thread is a poll on the soundness of a logical argument.
Here is the argument:
Thank you to vote before posting any comment here.
You will be able to change your vote if need be.
EB
Here is the argument:
Is this argument sound?For all we know, a wave may be the state of some water in the sea;
What the buoy does is determined by the state of some water in the sea;
Therefore, for all we know, what the buoy does may be determined by a wave.
Thank you to vote before posting any comment here.
You will be able to change your vote if need be.
EB
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
OK, this certainly shows either you don't understand English or you don't speak English.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:49 pmThe phrase for all we know is the opposite of definitive and so the conclusion cannot be described as suchSpeakpigeon wrote:The definitive conclusion is that therefore for all we know what the buoy does may be determined by a wavesurreptitious57 wrote:
An argument has a definitive conclusion to it but that one does not so its not an argument as such
So, from now on, please ignore my threads.
EB
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
This thread is about the validity of the argument, not whether the argument is useful.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:39 pm Sure those statements are true. But it makes no difference because this statement is true with or without them.
- for all we know, what the buoy does may be determined by a wave.
Deductive validity can only apply to deductions. Putting "therefore" in front of a statement that is true in it's own right does not make it a deduction from previous statements. That is an act of blatant misdirection.
If you want your collection of statements to add up to a deductive argument that could be valid you must formulate it such that the conclusion is dependent on the premises.
If you can't address the thread's question, you can leave.
From what you say here, it is obvious you haven't a clue what is a deductive argument and what is the validity of such.
It's up to you to articulate why the argument is or isn't valid.
Short of that, this is a derail.
EB
Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
Neither do you. You are yet to demonstrate one.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:04 pm it is obvious you haven't a clue what is a deductive argument and what is the validity of such.
And you still haven't stepped up to the $100 challenge.
P1. If you are right, then you will win $100
P2. You believe to be right
C So you should be winning $100
As easy as deduction!
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
Here is the OP again for those who are prepared to argue their point:
This thread is a poll on the soundness of a logical argument.
Here is the argument:
Thank you to vote before posting any comment here.
You will be able to change your vote if need be.
EB
This thread is a poll on the soundness of a logical argument.
Here is the argument:
Is this argument sound?For all we know, a wave may be the state of some water in the sea;
What the buoy does is determined by the state of some water in the sea;
Therefore, for all we know, what the buoy does may be determined by a wave.
Thank you to vote before posting any comment here.
You will be able to change your vote if need be.
EB
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
No that argument is not sound and neither is this oneSpeakpigeon wrote:
For all we know a wave may be the state of some water in the sea
What the buoy does is determined by the state of some water in the sea
Therefore for all we know what the buoy does may be determined by a wave
Is this argument sound
A wave is the state of water in the sea
What the buoy does is determined by the state of the water
So therefore what the buoy does is determined by the wave
Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
No.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:32 pm Here is the OP again for those who are prepared to argue their point:
This thread is a poll on the soundness of a logical argument.
Here is the argument:Is this argument sound?For all we know, a wave may be the state of some water in the sea;
What the buoy does is determined by the state of some water in the sea;
Therefore, for all we know, what the buoy does may be determined by a wave.
Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:32 pmThank you to vote before posting any comment here.
You will be able to change your vote if need be.
EB
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
Why is it not sound?surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:56 pmNo that argument is not soundSpeakpigeon wrote:
For all we know a wave may be the state of some water in the sea
What the buoy does is determined by the state of some water in the sea
Therefore for all we know what the buoy does may be determined by a wave
Is this argument sound
Irrelevant.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:56 pm and neither is this one
A wave is the state of water in the sea
What the buoy does is determined by the state of the water
So therefore what the buoy does is determined by the wave
Your argument has not the same logical form as my own.
EB
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
So, why?Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:58 pmNo.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:32 pmIs this argument sound?For all we know, a wave may be the state of some water in the sea;
What the buoy does is determined by the state of some water in the sea;
Therefore, for all we know, what the buoy does may be determined by a wave.
Can you explain?
EB
Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
Yes.Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:23 pmSo, why?
Can you explain?
EB
The second sentence/premise is NOT necessarily true.
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
No that argument is not soundSpeakpigeon wrote:
For all we know a wave may be the state of some water in the sea
What the buoy does is determined by the state of some water in the sea
Therefore for all we know what the buoy does may be determined by a wave
Is this argument sound
It is not absolutely true both within and without the context of the argument as is required
As a sound argument has to be rigorous enough for there to be no alternative interpretation
- Speakpigeon
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- Speakpigeon
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Re: Poll on the soundness of an argument about what a buoy does
You mean the premises are not true? Please clarify.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:30 pmNo that argument is not soundSpeakpigeon wrote: For all we know a wave may be the state of some water in the sea
What the buoy does is determined by the state of some water in the sea
Therefore for all we know what the buoy does may be determined by a wave
Is this argument sound
It is not absolutely true both within and without the context of the argument as is required
Just to claim it does isn't quite enough. You would need to articulate explicitly some "alternative interpretation".surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:30 pmAs a sound argument has to be rigorous enough for there to be no alternative interpretation
EB