## Poll on the validity of two arguments

What is the basis for reason? And mathematics?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

## Are these two arguments valid?

1st argument - Valid
4
25%
1st argument - Not valid
3
19%
1st argument - I don't know
1
6%
1st argument - The argument doesn't make sense
1
6%
2nd argument - Valid
4
25%
2nd argument - Not valid
3
19%
2nd argument - I don't know
0
2nd argument - The argument doesn't make sense
0

Speakpigeon
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### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Logik wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:43 pm Pretty ironic. Since our intuition is biased in certain way precisely so as to guarantee our survival using expedient heuristics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow
Irrelevant.
No mention of the word "intuition".
Logik wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:43 pm If our intuition was any good at avoiding making logical and methodical errors we wouldn't need so much rigour in science.
Irrelevant.
I didn't claim what you suggest I did.

Our logical intuitions are produced by our sense of logic, which is similar in all essential aspects to a perception sense, and as reliable. I wouldn't recommend ignoring what your visual sense tells you.
EB
Speakpigeon
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### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Logik wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:42 pm
Speakpigeon wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:37 pmMy definition is used in the whole world.
Bandwagon fallacy?
Yours.
Logik wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:34 pmMy definition is used in any epistemic field. Which, naturally, excludes most of academia.
EB
Logik
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### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Speakpigeon wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:27 am Our logical intuitions are produced by our sense of logic, which is similar in all essential aspects to a perception sense, and as reliable. I wouldn't recommend ignoring what your visual sense tells you.
Strawman.

I don't ignore what my visual sense tells me.

But I would ignore what my logical intuition tells me if it concludes that elephants may fly.

That's why I insist on the \$100. So that your stupidity hurts. Empirically.

But as is evident, you may OR may not put your money where your mouth is.
Speakpigeon
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Location: Paris, France, EU

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Logik wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:46 am
Speakpigeon wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:27 am Our logical intuitions are produced by our sense of logic, which is similar in all essential aspects to a perception sense, and as reliable. I wouldn't recommend ignoring what your visual sense tells you.
Strawman. I don't ignore what my visual sense tells me.
Strawman.
I didn't say you did.
Logik wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:46 am But I would ignore what my logical intuition tells me if it concludes that elephants may fly.
Irrelevant.
Intuitions don't conclude.
Logik wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:46 am Too bad you can't tell your intuition is making errors.
Strawman.
Nobody can.
What we may be able to do is realise when our concepts are contradictory, which is just another way to say they are contrary to our intuition.

So, overall, it was a thoroughly irrelevant post. I think it's pretty clear now all you can do is essentially mindlessly repeat the mantras you've learned from the elders at the Church of Computer Scientology. There are actually zillions of guys like you, unable to think for themselves, unable to argue, unable to articulate, unable to debate in a rational way, prompt to abuse and misrepresentations, just a huge waste of time. Life is so very short, you know. Maybe you could do with a little bit of re-thinking of your options in life.
EB
Logik
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Speakpigeon wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:22 pm What we may be able to do is realise when our concepts are contradictory, which is just another way to say they are contrary to our intuition.
What you are also unable to realise is that your concepts are tautological. And equivocal.

Which is why you can't express your conception of 'MAY' as a truth-table.

If I were to venture a guess - it's because you don't understand probability theory, and so truth/false dichotomies are all you are able to articulate given your intuition's lack of useful concepts for dealing with modality.
Speakpigeon wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:22 pm There are actually zillions of guys like you, unable to think for themselves, unable to argue, unable to articulate
Are there?

So you will be articulating the meaning of "MAY" how soon?

Where is your freedom of expression, you "free" thinker, you?
Speakpigeon wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:22 pm unable to debate in a rational way,
Translation: I don't like the way you engage me.

Yeah. I call sophists out on their bullshit

Speakpigeon
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Location: Paris, France, EU

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

I was looking for the "ignore" feature, does anybody knows about that?
EB
Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Speakpigeon wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:30 pm I was looking for the "ignore" feature, does anybody knows about that?
EB
\$100 and I'll tell you where it is. You fucking sophist.

Run for the hills!
bahman
Posts: 3196
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Speakpigeon wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:26 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:10 pm
Logik wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:51 pm Uncertainty is all about probability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty#Concepts
Yes. I couldn't say it better than you.
Yet his claim is wrong and merely shows a lack of formal education. Uncertainty is not ALL about probability.
Uncertain primarily means unknown, and this because knowledge brings certainty.
His definition is essentially that used in the context of science.Yet, even there his claim is false. It is uncertain that dark matter is matter at all. No probabilities there, even though it's a scientific question.
EB
If by "may" you mean unknown, then the premise is unknown to be true or false hence the conclusion.
Speakpigeon
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### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

bahman wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:19 pm If by "may" you mean unknown, then the premise is unknown to be true or false hence the conclusion.
"May" just doesn't mean unknown.
The wording of the argument should be interpreted as per the everyday English described in any English dictionary.
Obviously.
EB
bahman
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Speakpigeon wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:06 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:19 pm If by "may" you mean unknown, then the premise is unknown to be true or false hence the conclusion.
"May" just doesn't mean unknown.
The wording of the argument should be interpreted as per the everyday English described in any English dictionary.
Obviously.
EB
There are 12 definitions for may: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... nglish/may. Please pick up one which is relevant to the discussion.
Speakpigeon
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Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:20 pm
Location: Paris, France, EU

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

bahman wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:52 pm There are 12 definitions for may: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... nglish/may. Please pick up one which is relevant to the discussion.
2. modal verb
You use may to indicate that there is a possibility that something is true, but you cannot be certain.
EB
bahman
Posts: 3196
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Speakpigeon wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:21 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:52 pm There are 12 definitions for may: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... nglish/may. Please pick up one which is relevant to the discussion.
2. modal verb
You use may to indicate that there is a possibility that something is true, but you cannot be certain.
EB
Well, it depends what do you mean with possibility. Chance? "You cannot be certain" is more restrictive than chance since it means that you cannot know. That is strange way of defining a word to me unless by uncertain you mean chance again.
Logik
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### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

bahman wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:38 pm Well, it depends what do you mean with possibility. Chance? "You cannot be certain" is more restrictive than chance since it means that you cannot know. That is strange way of defining a word to me unless by uncertain you mean chance again.
I think what he means is "pick the definition which means I don't have to adjust my beliefs"
bahman
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

Logik wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:23 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:38 pm Well, it depends what do you mean with possibility. Chance? "You cannot be certain" is more restrictive than chance since it means that you cannot know. That is strange way of defining a word to me unless by uncertain you mean chance again.
I think what he means is "pick the definition which means I don't have to adjust my beliefs"
What do you mean?
Logik
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

### Re: Poll on the validity of two arguments

bahman wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:38 pm What do you mean?
He doesn't seem too keen on seeing it from any other perspective except the one that agrees with his current point of view.