Philosophy Now Forum

If we know that space-time expands does not that indicate that the whole system as it is, was smaller, a moment of time before, Now?

If that is true, does not that indicate, that at the end of this line of recognition stands the state of physically Nothing? Zero.

It is a physical reality based mathematical conception in our current recognition.

In reality, we can recognize Zero(nothing with the thought experiment.)

We can perceive It as an energy, matter, information, space, time free state.

Revealing as our common physical, mathematical, philosophical origin, a physical reality based mathematical reference point.

I recognize that in proportion to this physical reality based sense(conception) everything has some kind of mathematically expressible and physically recognizable value. Space, time, information, energy, matter.

I think that this mathematical axiomatization 1x0=0 is false. Impossible... Where did the One go?

If the system has a beginning does not that indicate that it is finite?

There is a common moment of Now in the existing Universe or in other words, everywhere is happening something...even perception is relative to the physical circumstances and the level of understanding One owns.

Black holes....Interstellar space

Space is there...Time is there...Energy is there...Information is there...Mass is there...countable....more than Nothing....0

1x0 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:59 pm If we know that space-time expands ...

Already confused about the difference between math and physics. Miscategorized. Fail.

I think this is wrong. Physics uses mathematical axiomatizations.

Maybe miss categorised. Where to put it than? General philosophy?

Can you give an example on 1*0=0?

one occurring zero times is nothing

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:54 am one occurring zero times is nothing

No, it's zero. Zero is not nothing. Zero is a particular real number.

1x0 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:59 pm If we know that space-time expands does not that indicate that the whole system as it is, was smaller, a moment of time before, Now?

If that is true, does not that indicate, that at the end of this line of recognition stands the state of physically Nothing? Zero.

It is a physical reality based mathematical conception in our current recognition.

In reality, we can recognize Zero(nothing with the thought experiment.)

We can perceive It as an energy, matter, information, space, time free state.

Revealing as our common physical, mathematical, philosophical origin, a physical reality based mathematical reference point.

I recognize that in proportion to this physical reality based sense(conception) everything has some kind of mathematically expressible and physically recognizable value. Space, time, information, energy, matter.

I think that this mathematical axiomatization 1x0=0 is false. Impossible... Where did the One go?

If the system has a beginning does not that indicate that it is finite?

There is a common moment of Now in the existing Universe or in other words, everywhere is happening something...even perception is relative to the physical circumstances and the level of understanding One owns.

Black holes....Interstellar space

Space is there...Time is there...Energy is there...Information is there...Mass is there...countable....more than Nothing....0

Imo:

In the current most mainstream version of the Big Bang theory, at the beginning (sounds nonsense) of time, the universe suddenly jumped into existence (sounds nonsense) from nothing (sounds nonsense), and then kept incresing it's information content (sounds nonsense) thanks to genuine quantum randomness (sounds nonsense to me, I think there is only apparent randomness).

Also, according to this model, matter and antimatter were created in equal amounts and pretty much annihilated each other, so therefore we can't possibly be here now (but we pretty much are).

So I think the sensible position to take is that some kind of Big Bang(s) probably happened to the observable part of the universe at some point, but there is probably more to the story, the details are unclear.

Also, the rate of expansion of the universe seems to have changed several times already, so it might be quite possible that eventually it will change again and reverse, and our part of the universe will collapse back into a singularity. Plus maybe time simply goes in circle, the Big Bang and the Big Crunch might also be the same moment in time.

So maybe we shouldn't take the current mainstream version 100% seriously yet. If I understand correctly, you derived your 1x0 argument from this version, but that might be a mistake.

1x0 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:17 pmMaybe miss categorised. Where to put it than? General philosophy?

Depends on the point you're trying to make. Plenty of threads are posted perhaps in the wrong place, but we're not really sure what your point actually is. Your OP covers a lot of unrelated things. For instance, spacetime does not expand. Space does. That belongs I perhaps in philosophy of science, if it was your point. There is no 1x0 in that. Space eventually will be spread quite thin, but never reach zero density.

"About nothing" might be metaphysics, depending on what you mean by nothing. Your example below does not in any way illustrate your title.

Impossible... Where did the One go?
...
Can you give an example on 1*0=0?

Both sides are zero (not 'nothing' as wtf points out), which is why they are equal. Since neither side is 1, there is no 1 to 'go' anywhere. That's the mathematics answer. If your question is not about mathematics, then yes, you've posted in the wrong place.

Applied mathematics:
All I've ever had is ducks, and I've had zero ducks. Where did the duck go? Answer: There never was a duck.
You used past tense ("where did it go"), so perhaps you had a duck only in the past, and then it left your possession, in which case 1-1=0 more appropriately describes the duck going somewhere else.
An example of 1x0 perhaps:
I have 1 bird, and zero percent of them are ducks. 1x0=0. Where did the duck go? Answer: The bird was never a duck. No duck 'went' anywhere.
An example with nonzero ducks:
I had one live duck and zero percent of them survived the avian flu. 1x0=0. Where did the live duck go? Answer: It didn't 'go', but is no longer counted among the living.

Impossible... Where did the One go?

None of these examples seem impossible or contradictory.

Concerning space expansion:

1x0 wrote:If that is true, does not that indicate, that at the end of this line of recognition stands the state of physically Nothing? Zero.

"end of this line" cannot be correct. If space expands forever, there is not a time at which the line ends. If expansion stops, it stops at some finite density, not zero. If it expands forever, the density still never reaches zero (which would indeed be the 'end' of the process) so there is no zero there. In fact, the total mass/energy of the universe is conserved, and seems to be already zero, although this has not been verified, but it seems to be a violation of the conservation laws to be any other figure. So 'where did it go' is more appropriately asked: 'where did it come from', the answer being: There is no duck. It is zero on both sides of the equation.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:54 am one occurring zero times is nothing

-Imp

So you mean that the information what you have about the entity you recognized with this natural number is gone from your mind as well.

You can always take nothing without the recognition of One.

The fundamental problem here is that that one has already occurred once. Can not occur zero times...

The null hypothesis is that Nothing, zero is a physical reality based mathematical conception which we can perceive as an energy, matter, information, space, time free state. Revealing as our common physical, mathematical, philosophical origin, a physical reality based mathematical reference point. I state that in proportion to this physical reality based sense(conception) everything has some kind of mathematically expressible value. Space, time, information, energy, matter.

The hypothesis is based on the fact that space expands and time evolves which points that our current moment is bigger than the moment before. Following this path backward on the timeline of the physical reality we arrive to the lowest possible physical state, which I perceive as a space(time), energy, matter, information-free state. 0. In proportion to this state, everything has value. Everything has mathematically expressible value. Space, time, energy, matter and information. - tlz

wtf wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:02 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:54 am one occurring zero times is nothing

No, it's zero. Zero is not nothing. Zero is a particular real number.

I never said that zero was nothing; the occurrence (of one or whatever) is naught

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:31 pm I never said that zero was nothing; the occurrence (of one or whatever) is naught

1 occurring zero times is zero. The empty sum is zero. Mathematical fact. Zero is not nothing.

wtf wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:44 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:31 pm I never said that zero was nothing; the occurrence (of one or whatever) is naught

1 occurring zero times is zero. The empty sum is zero. Mathematical fact. Zero is not nothing.

The fundamental problem here is that that one has already occurred once. Can not occur zero times...

1x0 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:58 pm The fundamental problem here is that that one has already occurred once. Can not occur zero times...

No, there are zero of them. Just like if I have zero flying pink elephants in my pocket. There are zero of them.

I understand the state of zero (there is always space-time during the recognition i.e absolute nothing cannot be....)

If you take the concept even its recognition is zero in your pocket, still, there is some thought in your mind about the concept of one pink elephant. (the concept you expressed with number one)

Recognition ≠ multiplication.

Why is it that so many people here can't tell mathemathics, physics, and their own thoughts apart?