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What is the basis for reason? And mathematics?

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holden
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I'm newly interested in learning about / teaching myself logic (and related disciplines), but I need to begin at the most elementary level. Can someone recommend any texts that are comprehensive, but also manageable for a novice? Any texts I should avoid?

Arising_uk
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Harbal
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Arising_uk wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 5:52 pm
This looks useful -

http://www.kpaprzycka.filozofia.uw.edu. ... aught.html
It looks like Hell on Earth, are you some sort of masochist, Auk?

Arising_uk
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See the bit about him wanting to teach himself Logic at an elementary level?

attofishpi
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I thought logic was natural to a naturally logical instrument (the brain)

wtf
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attofishpi wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 pm
I thought logic was natural to a naturally logical instrument (the brain)
If logic is natural, why did it take till 1879 for Frege to create the predicate logic that is the underlying logic used in modern math? Why didn't Aristotle discover it?

attofishpi
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wtf wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 11:11 pm
attofishpi wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 pm
I thought logic was natural to a naturally logical instrument (the brain)
If logic is natural, why did it take till 1879 for Frege to create the predicate logic that is the underlying logic used in modern math? Why didn't Aristotle discover it?
You are confusing human understanding of logic for logic.

wtf
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attofishpi wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 11:45 pm

You are confusing human understanding of logic for logic.
Ah I see. Before there were humans around to have understanding, where was first-order predicate logic as explained for the first time in human history by Gottlob Frege in his Begriffsschrift of 1879?

Where were the universal and existential quantifiers before Frege invented them? If they were "out there" waiting to be discovered ... exactly what else might be out there? For all you know the refutation of Frege's logic is "out there." How would we know till we wait for history to happen? In which case ... aren't you confusing historical contingency with necessary truth?

I would like to understand what you think logic is in the absence of minds capable of inventing or understanding logic.

tl;dr: That's a heavy Platonist ax you're swinging there.

attofishpi
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wtf wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:44 am
attofishpi wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 11:45 pm

You are confusing human understanding of logic for logic.
Ah I see. Before there were humans around to have understanding, where was first-order predicate logic as explained for the first time in human history by Gottlob Frege in his Begriffsschrift of 1879?

Where were the universal and existential quantifiers before Frege invented them? If they were "out there" waiting to be discovered ... exactly what else might be out there? For all you know the refutation of Frege's logic is "out there." How would we know till we wait for history to happen? In which case ... aren't you confusing historical contingency with necessary truth?

I would like to understand what you think logic is in the absence of minds capable of inventing or understanding logic.

tl;dr: That's a heavy Platonist ax you're swinging there.
Logic is natural to a naturally logical instrument (the brain).

Arising_uk
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attofishpi wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 pm
I thought logic was natural to a naturally logical instrument (the brain)
Pattern making is natural to the CNS and obeys the rules of Logic. Reasoning with language can be done logically but not necessarily. Reasoning about Formal Logic is a taught thing and quite difficult to learn and understand, at least that is my experience.

attofishpi
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Arising_uk wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 6:27 pm
attofishpi wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 pm
I thought logic was natural to a naturally logical instrument (the brain)
Pattern making is natural to the CNS and obeys the rules of Logic. Reasoning with language can be done logically but not necessarily. Reasoning about Formal Logic is a taught thing and quite difficult to learn and understand, at least that is my experience.
Thanks for clearing that up.

Arising_uk
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p.s.
Just my opinion mind.

osgart
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so there is a natural logical order apart from man made logic is what the guy is saying.

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