The Death of Postmodernism And Beyond

Discussion of articles that appear in the magazine.

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reasonvemotion
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Re: The Death of Postmodernism And Beyond

Post by reasonvemotion »

bdubay:
But we old-timers will look back fondly at the magnificence of postmodernisms
A wonderful response. You may consider yourself "old timer" but your thoughts are full of wisdom, common sense and after reading what you had to say, instills in my mind the desire to know more.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: The Death of Postmodernism And Beyond

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

https://philosophynow.org/issues/58/The ... And_Beyond

Postmoderism is about radical skepticism. There are very good reasons why it emerged out of WW2, as that was a moment when the arrogance of certainty was challenged and defeated. What followed was a good deal of navel gazing that needs to be preserved if European culture is to survive without being swamped by the myths of austerity and corporate benevolence.

But like the A-bomb, once you invent PM, you cannot un-invent it. This article seems to be a growing tendency of poorly thought out 'thinkers', who have not really don't their due diligence.
PM and other philosophical movements are not simply fashions that die, as when you change your socks. The writer seems to think that because Foucault and Derrida died before the current tranche of undergrads was born that PM is already kicking up the daisies. BULLSHIT.
You can't simply dismiss all PM as some sort of temporary aberration. When faced with radical skepticism the only way to replaces it is with radical certainty. And since that is not going to happen any time soon (well let us hope it does not), than the questions asked by PM remain good ones.
There are very good political reasons to keep PM alive. When it comes to unpacking the Tories TTIP policy and the growth of corporate power, Global Warming (for and against), and all other establishment assertions of received wisdom that college students are now being forced to cram by rote uncritically, then PM will still be there like a gad fly to call them on their assumptions.
PM is not a system of though, nor is it a set piece dogma. It is a method of thinking, or unthinking what is fed to you. As a method it can only be more or less effective. It's not going to die, because it never said anything that has been shown to be untrue.

Fuck PN, what a bunch of crapology My waste basket now has two articles from one month "Atheism on Trial" and now this piece of useless flim-flam.
Last edited by Hobbes' Choice on Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: The Death of Postmodernism And Beyond

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

mickthinks wrote:meh - I think it's a debate for poseurs.
Stop posing on PN, fuck off and find a more appropriate forum for your dead brain .

Here's one I know you will love.
http://soaps.sheknows.com/messageboard/
At least you know something about it, which is more that you can say for philosophy.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: The Death of Postmodernism And Beyond

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

bdubay wrote:Thanks, Alan Kirby,

It is with some relief that postmodernism is dead. It was such a butt of late-nite jokes and scurrilous slander by newspaper editors, who characterized postmodernists as relativist hippies of no particular values or beliefs. Science will breathe a sigh of relief and hope again for some restoration of its smudged Enlightenment prestige.

And it is quite postmodern than postmodernism passes on and gives way to new worlds and new visions. The new label, pseudo-modernism is an appropriate moniker for postmodernism's lively progeny so well described in your fortunate article.

But we old-timers will look back fondly at the magnificence of postmodernisms accomplishments and the brilliance of its champions. Who can forget the likes of Hume, Vico, Heidegger, Wittgenstein, Nietzsche, Peirce, James, Dewey, Barth, Derrida, Rorty, and Popper? Their rejection of dualism, absolutism of every kind, and correspondence theory, their insistence on the limitations human knowledge, the solidarity of the human family, and the place of emotion in human thought and learning--all set their indelible mark on us, our times, and on history.

But, maybe, it is not over until its over. Newcomers such as Americans Lakoff and Johnson still have something to say. They show that the human body not only limits knowledge, but also makes it possible and shapes it. This is such a happy corrective for both postmodern philosophy and cognitive science! They don't quite get the fly out of the bottle, but they do show that human thought and language are not entirely arbitrary, but grounded in bodily experience.

Most radically, they suggest that the brain uses the same nerve regions for sensory-motor processing as for thought. This is an evolutionary economy that uses the same structures for more than one purpose.

This suggestion implies that any organism that can feel and move can categorize experiences and make distinctions between them, enabling them at least to distinguish between food and not food, enemies and friends. This suggests that other animals not only share our genes, but they also in a fundamental way think like us. Because they have different bodies, their languages and modes of thought are different. But even an octopus (with its 9 brains), can conceptualize, compare, contrast, conjecture, speculate, and experiment.

Often in observing the behavior of an animal, I have thought, "If I had a body like that, that's exactly how I would react." Postmodernism still has a few more thrilling thoughts to reveal, and these are very exciting times.
Obviously Kirby thinks that PM and the entire body of 20thC thinking can just be replaced, with what?
Facebook presumably?
What a tit.
mickthinks
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Re: The Death of Postmodernism And Beyond

Post by mickthinks »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
mickthinks wrote:meh - I think it's a debate for poseurs.
Stop posing on PN, fuck off and find a more appropriate forum for your dead brain .

Here's one I know you will love.
http://soaps.sheknows.com/messageboard/
At least you know something about it, which is more that you can say for philosophy.
LOL Hobby, your Dunning is well-and-truly Krugered! Remember this: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15189&p=218874#p218874 ? Other readers might wonder why I haven't followed my own advice here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15042&p=197161#p197161
Last edited by mickthinks on Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: The Death of Postmodernism And Beyond

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

mickthinks wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
mickthinks wrote:meh - I think it's a debate for poseurs.
Stop posing on PN, fuck off and find a more appropriate forum for your dead brain .

Here's one I know you will love.
http://soaps.sheknows.com/messageboard/
At least you know something about it, which is more that you can say for philosophy.
LOL Hobby, your Dunning is well-and-truly Krugered! Remember this: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15189&p=218874 ? Other readers might wonder why I haven't followed my own advice here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15042&p=197161
I'm, sure this might make sense to you. But I'm puzzled to see what you think this has to do with me.
Do you think you are processing stuff okay ATM?
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: The Death of Postmodernism And Beyond

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

PM is a range of interpretive and critical tools; which followed the tragic excesses of the Second World War in an attack on the tyrrany of certainty and authoritarianism.
The claim that "IT" (whatever the writer thinks 'it' is) is dead, is not a statement of fact, it is a call to arms. He and his cadre of authoritarians crypo-fascists is simply hatching a neoliberal plot to silence dissent and critical thinking.

We need to be very wary of this sort of crap. This is where it starts; like logical-positivism of the Vienna school imposed the authority of the expert and the wise old men in their ivory towers, an generalised attack on PM of this sort seeks to impose a new world order.
Dalek Prime
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Re: The Death of Postmodernism And Beyond

Post by Dalek Prime »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
bdubay wrote:Thanks, Alan Kirby,

It is with some relief that postmodernism is dead. It was such a butt of late-nite jokes and scurrilous slander by newspaper editors, who characterized postmodernists as relativist hippies of no particular values or beliefs. Science will breathe a sigh of relief and hope again for some restoration of its smudged Enlightenment prestige.

And it is quite postmodern than postmodernism passes on and gives way to new worlds and new visions. The new label, pseudo-modernism is an appropriate moniker for postmodernism's lively progeny so well described in your fortunate article.

But we old-timers will look back fondly at the magnificence of postmodernisms accomplishments and the brilliance of its champions. Who can forget the likes of Hume, Vico, Heidegger, Wittgenstein, Nietzsche, Peirce, James, Dewey, Barth, Derrida, Rorty, and Popper? Their rejection of dualism, absolutism of every kind, and correspondence theory, their insistence on the limitations human knowledge, the solidarity of the human family, and the place of emotion in human thought and learning--all set their indelible mark on us, our times, and on history.

But, maybe, it is not over until its over. Newcomers such as Americans Lakoff and Johnson still have something to say. They show that the human body not only limits knowledge, but also makes it possible and shapes it. This is such a happy corrective for both postmodern philosophy and cognitive science! They don't quite get the fly out of the bottle, but they do show that human thought and language are not entirely arbitrary, but grounded in bodily experience.

Most radically, they suggest that the brain uses the same nerve regions for sensory-motor processing as for thought. This is an evolutionary economy that uses the same structures for more than one purpose.

This suggestion implies that any organism that can feel and move can categorize experiences and make distinctions between them, enabling them at least to distinguish between food and not food, enemies and friends. This suggests that other animals not only share our genes, but they also in a fundamental way think like us. Because they have different bodies, their languages and modes of thought are different. But even an octopus (with its 9 brains), can conceptualize, compare, contrast, conjecture, speculate, and experiment.

Often in observing the behavior of an animal, I have thought, "If I had a body like that, that's exactly how I would react." Postmodernism still has a few more thrilling thoughts to reveal, and these are very exciting times.
Obviously Kirby thinks that PM and the entire body of 20thC thinking can just be replaced, with what?
Facebook presumably?
What a tit.
What a great way to make the world a little better; anyone who participates regularly on social media suddenly disappears without a trace.
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