How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

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attofishpi
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by attofishpi »

promethean75 wrote:
attofishpi wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:26 am
promethean75 wrote:I did six years in prison (two different bids, four different prisons), and I met not a single inmate who was an atheist.

And I don't mean they were once atheists and became religious when they got locked up, hoping to save their asses. No, these guys were always religious.

No atheists in prison!! - And you were the only gay in the village?
The fuck did you just call me?
I suggested you were Dafydd - The only gay in the village.
Dafydd - The only gay in the village 2nd Compilation - Little Britain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-kM3FtuAKM
Advocate
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Advocate »

Mind is a metaphor for the patterns in the brain. That's all there is.

Spiritual patterns exist in the mind, physical ones in the brain.
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bahman
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by bahman »

Philosophy Now wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:25 pm The following readers’ answers to this central philosophical question each win a random book.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/65/How ... in_Related
Mind is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience, process the subject of experience, and freely decide and cause. Brain is nothing but a set of mind that are connected to each other.
Pattern-chaser
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Advocate wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:24 am Mind is a metaphor for the patterns in the brain. That's all there is.
The problem with assertions like this is that all of them — those with merit, and those without — are presented without justification. Is there a convincing reason why this particular assertion is correct? If so, what is it, please?
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Pattern-chaser post_id=594000 time=1662211672 user_id=22925]
[quote=Advocate post_id=588820 time=1660033466 user_id=15238]
Mind is a metaphor for the patterns in the brain. That's all there is.
[/quote]

The problem with assertions like this is that all of them — those with merit, and those without — are presented without justification. Is there a convincing reason why this particular assertion is correct? If so, what is it, please?
[/quote]

My answer is necessary and sufficient for all meaningful use cases.
Iwannaplato
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Advocate wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:01 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:27 pm
Advocate wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:24 am Mind is a metaphor for the patterns in the brain. That's all there is.
The problem with assertions like this is that all of them — those with merit, and those without — are presented without justification. Is there a convincing reason why this particular assertion is correct? If so, what is it, please?
My answer is necessary and sufficient for all meaningful use cases.
That's an evaluation of your answer, it's not a justification.

Some says X i true.
When challenged he says 'my answer was correct'.
Iimpicitly, since there is no explicit justification, this means 'It's true because i think it is true.'
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Iwannaplato post_id=594058 time=1662239052 user_id=3619]
[quote=Advocate post_id=594016 time=1662217283 user_id=15238]
[quote=Pattern-chaser post_id=594000 time=1662211672 user_id=22925]


The problem with assertions like this is that all of them — those with merit, and those without — are presented without justification. Is there a convincing reason why this particular assertion is correct? If so, what is it, please?
[/quote]

My answer is necessary and sufficient for all meaningful use cases.
[/quote]That's an evaluation of your answer, it's not a justification.

Some says X i true.
When challenged he says 'my answer was correct'.
Iimpicitly, since there is no explicit justification, this means 'It's true because i think it is true.'
[/quote]

The justification is in trying it. It only takes one exception to prove it wrong. Truth needs no justification as it constantly replicates. My opinion is irrelevant. My case is prima facie and the burden of proof is elsewhere. All that academic proof crap doesn't add anything useful here.

Let me rephrase;

Mind IS! a metaphore for the patterns in the brain. That's what it has always been. That's all it has ever been, and any exception you may think you've found is less true and less useful than this.
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Advocate wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:48 pm The justification is in trying it.
So, other people need to justify it.
It only takes one exception to prove it wrong.
So, the burden of evidence is on other people. That's not how it works.
Truth needs no justification as it constantly replicates. My opinion is irrelevant.
You're now conflating justification with opinion. And in fact all you offered was an opinion and then as justification an opinion about your first opinion.
My case is prima facie and the burden of proof is elsewhere.
All that academic proof crap doesn't add anything useful here.
I can imagine it's inconvenient for you.

Let me rephrase;
Mind IS! a metaphore for the patterns in the brain.
That's what it has always been. That's all it has ever been, and any exception you may think you've found is less true and less useful than this.
And repeating an assertion is not justification. This isn't academic crap. It's used in contexts from the law, to arguments in relationships, to formal debates, to police investigations to....all over the place.

The only people who effectively believe what you are saying here about arguments are dictators - who can enforce their opinions, so they don't need justifications (of course, many do anyway) and mystics.

To sum up your response: my statement was correct because it is really correct. And you wonder why you haven' won a Nobel Prize.
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Iwannaplato post_id=594061 time=1662242542 user_id=3619]
[quote=Advocate post_id=594060 time=1662241724 user_id=15238]
The justification is in trying it.[/quote]So, other people need to justify it.

[quote] It only takes one exception to prove it wrong. [/quote]So, the burden of evidence is on other people. That's not how it works.

[quote] Truth needs no justification as it constantly replicates. My opinion is irrelevant.[/quote]You're now conflating justification with opinion. And in fact all you offered was an opinion and then as justification an opinion about your first opinion.

[quote] My case is prima facie and the burden of proof is elsewhere. [/quote][quote] All that academic proof crap doesn't add anything useful here.[/quote]I can imagine it's inconvenient for you.

Let me rephrase;
[quote]
Mind IS! a metaphore for the patterns in the brain.[/quote] [quote]That's what it has always been. That's all it has ever been, and any exception you may think you've found is less true and less useful than this.
[/quote]And repeating an assertion is not justification. This isn't academic crap. It's used in contexts from the law, to arguments in relationships, to formal debates, to police investigations to....all over the place.

The only people who effectively believe what you are saying here about arguments are dictators - who can enforce their opinions, so they don't need justifications (of course, many do anyway) and mystics.
[/quote]

Reasonable justification lies in you trying it for yourself and noticing that it never breaks. That's all there is, and it remains necessary and sufficient for all use cases
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Advocate wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:03 pm Reasonable justification lies in you trying it for yourself and noticing that it never breaks. That's all there is, and it remains necessary and sufficient for all use cases
I read that the first time you wrote it.
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Iwannaplato post_id=594063 time=1662243876 user_id=3619]
[quote=Advocate post_id=594062 time=1662242633 user_id=15238]
Reasonable justification lies in you trying it for yourself and noticing that it never breaks. That's all there is, and it remains necessary and sufficient for all use cases
[/quote]I read that the first time you wrote it.
[/quote]

You didn't understand it the first time.

What would you consider justification? There's nothing i could even hypothetically provide without knowing that. It'd just be blowing smoke.
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Advocate wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:46 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:24 pm
Advocate wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:03 pm Reasonable justification lies in you trying it for yourself and noticing that it never breaks. That's all there is, and it remains necessary and sufficient for all use cases
I read that the first time you wrote it.
You didn't understand it the first time.

What would you consider justification? There's nothing i could even hypothetically provide without knowing that. It'd just be blowing smoke.
What, now you're a mind reader. It's an easy sentence to understand. But it's not a justification and certainly not from someone claiming to be the greatest philosopher alive. This was a 12 year olds response. When I say I read it, I was pointing out you already said this and it was not a justification then. REpeating yourself brings you no closer to justifying something. If you are the greatest philosopher than you understand what justification is. In a context like this one it is even more obvious. You make your case using evidence, deduction, if relevant bring in some research, etc. That's what would set you apart from a guru, someone who thinks proclamations are justification of themselves. I don't bear the onus to justify your bare assertions.
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Iwannaplato post_id=597479 time=1663627422 user_id=3619]
[quote=Advocate post_id=594064 time=1662245174 user_id=15238]
[quote=Iwannaplato post_id=594063 time=1662243876 user_id=3619]
I read that the first time you wrote it.
[/quote]

You didn't understand it the first time.

What would you consider justification? There's nothing i could even hypothetically provide without knowing that. It'd just be blowing smoke.
[/quote]What, now you're a mind reader. It's an easy sentence to understand. But it's not a justification and certainly not from someone claiming to be the greatest philosopher alive. This was a 12 year olds response. When I say I read it, I was pointing out you already said this and it was not a justification then. REpeating yourself brings you no closer to justifying something. If you are the greatest philosopher than you understand what justification is. In a context like this one it is even more obvious. You make your case using evidence, deduction, if relevant bring in some research, etc. That's what would set you apart from a guru, someone who thinks proclamations are justification of themselves. I don't bear the onus to justify your bare assertions.
[/quote]

You wrote words. Well done. You refuted nothing. Try "mind is a metaphor for the patterns in the brain" in any real-world application and it'll clear things right up. That's the validation, and you haven't done it, so you can't speak to it. The Truth wishes not to be believed, regardless of evidence, but to be tested. If you want some other kinds of validation you can create it yourself. It's not necessary though. This just works.
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Advocate wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:54 pm You wrote words. Well done. You refuted nothing. Try "mind is a metaphor for the patterns in the brain" in any real-world application and it'll clear things right up. That's the validation, and you haven't done it, so you can't speak to it. The Truth wishes not to be believed, regardless of evidence, but to be tested. If you want some other kinds of validation you can create it yourself. It's not necessary though. This just works.
You wrote word. Well done. You demonstrated nothing.
As icing, you attribute intentions to truth.
What is the pattern that leads to being aware or what gets called consciousness?
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Re: How Are The Mind And Brain Related?

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Iwannaplato post_id=597507 time=1663649843 user_id=3619]
[quote=Advocate post_id=597481 time=1663628079 user_id=15238]
You wrote words. Well done. You refuted nothing. Try "mind is a metaphor for the patterns in the brain" in any real-world application and it'll clear things right up. That's the validation, and you haven't done it, so you can't speak to it. The Truth wishes not to be believed, regardless of evidence, but to be tested. If you want some other kinds of validation you can create it yourself. It's not necessary though. This just works.
[/quote]You wrote word. Well done. You demonstrated nothing.
As icing, you attribute intentions to truth.
What is the pattern that leads to being aware or what gets called consciousness?
[/quote]

That's what neuroscience exists to figure out.
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