bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:40 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
Of course yes. Have you ever study computer science? Feel free to educate yourself. Please study the following
link.
Do you find some of your remarks and comments condescending and/or arrogant?
Also. I did NOT find what you ALLEGE/IMPLY was in there. So, are you EVEN ABLE to direct 'us', readers, to the EXACT WORDS that CLAIM that "robots REALLY do have the ability to choose"?
If no, then maybe YOUR ARROGANCE is partly due to YOUR IGNORANCE.
But, if you are ABLE to SHOW us those words, then WILL YOU?
Ok, let me make your life simple.
Okay. Thank you.
But WHY do 'you' PRESUME 'my life' is NOT as SIMPLE as it could be NOW?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
Think of the situation that you are offered an orange and an apple (you offered options). You however can only pick up one fruit.
WHY can I, supposedly, ONLY pick up ONE fruit?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
This means that you have to make a choice if you want fruit. This means that you need to make a decision.
Yes, the words 'have to' MEANS and INFERS that I 'need to'.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
You then refer to yourself to see how do you feel about the fruits or which one is better for you.
Who and/or what is the 'you', which you CLAIM " refers to "yourself" "? And, who and/or what could be and/or is "yourself" here?
Also, when 'i' referred to "my" Self I do NOT 'feel' ANY thing about the fruits. Also, emotions do NOT come into play in regards to "which one is better for me". In fact, thinking, itself, does not even come into play about "which one is better for me".
See, the thoughts and emotions that arise within that body are NOT necessarily the thoughts and emotions that arise within this body.
But if you ALREADY understood who and what the 'you' IS and who and what thee 'I' AM and how the Mind and the brain ACTUALLY work, then 'you' would ALREADY KNOW ALL-OF-THIS.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
This defines the situation that that allows you to decide ( that is true since options are possible).
What do 'you' now mean by, " 'allows' you to decide "? Previously you stated that I 'have to', and that I 'need to', decide. 'Allowing' one to make a decision FREELY is VERY DIFFERENT from 'making' one make a decision.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
You for example see that you like the orange much more than apple in spite of apple be a more useful fruit for you at that moment.
'What' EXACTLY would 'make' an apple "be a MORE USEFUL fruit for me at that moment"? Besides YOUR OWN DISTORTED THINKING?
What are 'you' DECIDING 'more useful' on EXACTLY? And what is YOUR 'more useful' thinking in 'relation to' here, EXACTLY?
As I have previously stated, 'you', human beings, will try and say just absolutely ANY thing in order to back up and support your currently held BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS. And this can be CLEARLY SEEN in the way you write and speak.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
This is called comparing. The decision is made if what you want is what the comparing tells you. The decision, in this case, is biased. You can even also make unconditional/free decisions and say that you want an apple.
LOL You are joking here right?
Now, tell 'us', readers, HOW EXACTLY is 'me' choosing the apple here now instead of the orange some supposed and alleged "unconditional/free decision"?
And WHY if I chose the orange, then that would NOT be a supposed and alleged "unconditional/ free decision"?
WHY, to you, is one decision BIASED and the other one is NOT?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
The above example was a situation that you could make decision (biased) or a free decision (unbiased). The example of trail is a situation that you could only make a free decision.
You REALLY WILL 'try' just about absolutely ANY thing, in the hope that 'it' will back up and support your ALREADY held and maintained BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS about what is true, right, and correct, correct?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
A robot can make decision but not free decision.
Okay. If you BELIEVE SO, then it MUST BE SO, correct?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:28 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
It is not free given my definition of free will. It has the ability to decides conditionally which is what you mean by free will.
Is that what I REALLY mean?
If yes, then 'what' are you basing that on, EXACTLY?
By the way, what I mean by 'free will' is NOT what you just CLAIMED here.
The keyword free is added to make distinction between decision or free decision. I already explained both to you.
What you have done here is just 'TRY TO' defend and "justify" your ALREADY held and well maintained BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS, ONLY.
But what you are REALLY doing is just SHOWING and EXPOSING just how DISTORTED that thinking is within that body.
By the way, the ONLY way 'you' are making 'my life' simple here is by providing the actual EVIDENCE and PROOF that I needed, in order to SHOW and REVEAL just how an adult brain can work just like a computer/robot does, without me being accused of influencing the test subjects. That is; you are SHOWING just how the adult human brain can be so inflicted, and so that it is so BIASED that it can then only work just like a computer/robot does.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:28 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
In a simple word, a program just compares two states of the affair and do things depending on the comparison.
So what?
You appear to be going completely off-topic AGAIN.
That is how you decide. A computer decides in the same way. These decisions are not free though.
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:28 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
Of course not always. I am a free agent given my definition of freedom.
And when EXACTLY are 'you' "independent of ANY bias"?
When I decide freely and meditate. When I am on the unknown trail and face a fork in the trail.
And we have an ACTUAL EXAMPLE of when 'you' were on an unknown, to you, trail and you were faced with a fork on that trail. So, now we have a PRIME EXAMPLE of which only 'you' can EXPLAIN of; Why did you take the path that you did?
When, and IF, you answer Honestly, then 'we' can SEE if you were Truly 'free' or if you were being controlled by some 'thing'.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:28 am
How do 'you' make "your" 'self" "independent of ANY biases"?
Through a short meditation.
How 'long' is "a short meditation", and, how 'long' does that 'self' remain "independent of ANY biases" for?
It is just for the duration of the 'meditation' itself, or does it last past the meditation phase as well?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:28 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
It is an ability of the mind.
Is that the "mind" that 'you' HAVE, or the "mind" that 'you' ARE?
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
So asking how is meaningless since there is no explanation or theory for it.
But there is ALREADY a FULLY EXPLANATION of how. But one has to be Truly and thus FULLY OPEN to UNDERSTANDING this EXPLANATION FULLY.
Also, because HOW the Mind ACTUALLY WORKS this is WHY a FULL EXPLANATION is ALREADY KNOWN and WELL UNDERSTOOD.
What is that explanation?
But you just SAID and BELIEVE that "there is NO explanation NOR theory for 'it', correct?
And, if you BELIEVE that is NONE, then I have found that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the Universe that could SHOW 'you' otherwise.
See, while a human being is BELIEVING some 'thing' is true, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, in the WHOLE of the Universe, that can PROVE to them otherwise.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:28 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
I am free.
But 'you' can NOT even answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?', properly nor correctly.
I can even tell you what I am.
But will you tell 'us', readers, what 'I' am?
Saying, "you can even tell us some 'thing", does NOT necessarily mean that you REALLY can and thus WILL.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:28 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
I was not free if there was an explanation or theory for my ability. When? Whenever I like or it is required.
'I' found that 'I' am MORE FREE with KNOWING the FULL EXPLANATION.
But 'you' are RIGHT in that 'you' are VERY DIFFERENT from 'I'.
Of course, you can not have any explanation for free decision but decision
And while 'you' BELIEVE this is 'absolutely and irrefutably true', which you do, there is absolutely NO use AT ALL SAYING nor SHOWING 'you' otherwise.
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:56 pm
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:28 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
The robot is able to decide (given your definition of free will) but it is not able to freely decide (given my definition of free will).
So, quite conveniently, you can make absolutely ANY thing fit in with absolutely ANY thing else here now, correct?
And thus you could NEVER be WRONG, also, correct?
That needed only an elaboration.
Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:28 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:32 am
Ask yourself. You are free. A computer is not free. So your definition of free will is wrong.
What did you want 'me' to ask "myself"?
Also, 'you' BELIEVE that 'I' am wrong, so 'I' MUST BE WRONG, correct?
Sure your definition is wrong that is why you cannot get what I am saying. I am talking about free decision you are talking about decision.
But I have GOT what 'you' are saying. This can be PROVEN just by HOW I have been CHALLENGING you through and by asking you some CLARIFYING questions, which you have FAILED to answer sufficiently.