Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

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RCSaunders
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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by RCSaunders » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:27 pm

Philosophy Now wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:25 pm
by Fr. Jeffrey Kirby
Good religion always seeks to edify both the person and society.
Well, "all men mean well. The road to hell is paved with good intentions." It is hubris to believe one is put in this world to, "edify others," especially if one has to put over some superstition to do it.
The “something else” that we all sense ...
Why do the religious always presume to speak for everyone else. Perhaps the writer has some sense of some inexplicable, "something else," which may only be indigestion, but to presume everyone is suffering from the same delusions is just wrong.
As each of us deepens in our comprehension of God, we begin to seek out others who know and have a relationship with God. We find a need and a push to share and dialogue about ideas, experiences, and teachings. From this mutual exchange of spiritual goods, a community is formed and a way of life develops and is accepted by the people within this community. Here religion becomes more established.
Ah yes, wonderful religious communities, like Salem Massachusetts. Just don't get on the wrong side of it.
Organized religion is not a utopia. It is an attempt to assist a community of faith ...
As the great theologian, Samuel Clemens pointed out, "faith is believing what you know ain't so!" Anything that intentionally promotes a community of intentional ignorance needs to be stamped out as soon as possible.
Have there been times when religion has followed a less-than-noble course of action? Yes. Have there been times when the tenets of religion have been used to justify evil and atrocities? Yes. Does that mean that religion can affect no good, and should be removed from society?
Yes it does! The end does not justify the means. One does not tolerate evil so that some good can be achieved. It is that kind of evil thinking that justifies the sacrifice of others for the sake of society, like killing the Jews to purify society, or starving seven million Ukrainians for the economic good of the Russian state.

All religion is mistaken, not just the brand being promoted by Fr. Jeffrey Kirby, but, unlike the religious, I really have no desire or intention of changing the views or practices of anyone who chooses to embrace some religion, nor do I judge them. I know the harm mistaken beliefs do to those who hold them, but everyone has their own mind and must use them to make their own choices about what to believe, what to think, what to do, and how to live their life. If I had a religion, that would be it.

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Nick_A » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:06 pm

From the article
As each of us deepens in our comprehension of God, we begin to seek out others who know and have a relationship with God. We find a need and a push to share and dialogue about ideas, experiences, and teachings. From this mutual exchange of spiritual goods, a community is formed and a way of life develops and is accepted by the people within this community. Here religion becomes more established.

The word “religion” comes from a Latin word which means “to bind oneself,” and a person freely binds oneself to the way of life given and followed by his community of faith. From within this community, a spiritual leadership is recognized and it formalizes and interprets the shared teachings of the community.

The community is also open to the instructions and exhortations of their religious forbearers, those men and women who lived before them and who have passed on their knowledge and encounters with God. It sees this living tradition, in written and oral form, as a part of its own faith. The person who accepts this way of life values the role and wisdom of this tradition and of the existing spiritual leadership.

Ultimately, the entire task of binding oneself, of good religion, is an attempt to order and deepen the person and the community’s understanding and encounter with God.
I agree. This is the goal of the goal of the exoteric or outer expression of religion. However the esoteric or inner goal of religion is to create esoteric schools in which a person if they desire could become able to be a Christian for example.

I've learned that the more genuine esoteric religious expression becomes the more it must be hated. Worldy or exoteric society is such that the greater the value of the essence of religion is, the more its ideas and expressions must be hated. As the essence of religion becomes more corrupt it becomes more acceptable to the world,

J
ohn 15:18-25 New International Version (NIV)

The World Hates the Disciples

18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’[a] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’
This is why Simone Weil is known as the "Patron Saint of Outsiders." These outsiders know there are great essential truths at the depth of Christianity so are not content with exoteric religious expression for their need for "meaning". They need a quality of understanding the world must hate. They are aware of the hypocrisy it must lead to and the use of imagination to cover up the reality of the human condition.

These people, especially the young who "do not belong to the world" need as much support in a world that must hate them as they become more real and open to the ideas which lead to the experience of the world and themselves as we are so as to become truly human, They will always be outsiders as was the ugly duckling in the Hans Christian Andersen fable that became a swan. But through realistic human influences they may eventually profit from the courage to be outsiders necessary to experience their need for meaning which doesn't arise from the world but exists at the depth of the great traditions initiating from a conscious source..

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:31 am

Religion: "to bind oneself"

Religion is holistic by nature as well as a pursuit of holism.

It is unity and the move towards unity.

Religion is thus "rational" by nature considering it is synthetic by nature (ie "joining).

It is joining the self to the self, the self to the group, and the group to the group.

We see this triadic nature reflected within the Gods of all the major religions as well Hegelian Synthesis, Triadic Logic, etc.

Any movement towards unity is a religious endeavor by nature.

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Nick_A » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:46 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:31 am
Religion: "to bind oneself"

Religion is holistic by nature as well as a pursuit of holism.

It is unity and the move towards unity.

Religion is thus "rational" by nature considering it is synthetic by nature (ie "joining).

It is joining the self to the self, the self to the group, and the group to the group.

We see this triadic nature reflected within the Gods of all the major religions as well Hegelian Synthesis, Triadic Logic, etc.

Any movement towards unity is a religious endeavor by nature.


Socrates said "I know nothing." Jesus said: "For Without Me You Can Do Nothing." John: 15

In the light of what Socrates and Jesus said, is it really so strange that the world must hate the Disciples who were on the conscious path to understanding
The World Hates the Disciples

18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’[a] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’
This is the foundation necessary to acquire the ability to put new wine into new bottles.

If humanity as a whole cannot do anything or know anything as would be normal for humanity not having endured the fallen human condition. wouldn't hatred be the normal attitude for anything leading to the understanding of objective human meaning and purpose? So without having experienced the reality of what Socrates and Jesus said, all these arguments pertaining to religion must be based on self justifying misconceptions which the world welcomes.

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:58 am

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:46 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:31 am
Religion: "to bind oneself"

Religion is holistic by nature as well as a pursuit of holism.

It is unity and the move towards unity.

Religion is thus "rational" by nature considering it is synthetic by nature (ie "joining).

It is joining the self to the self, the self to the group, and the group to the group.

We see this triadic nature reflected within the Gods of all the major religions as well Hegelian Synthesis, Triadic Logic, etc.

Any movement towards unity is a religious endeavor by nature.


Socrates said "I know nothing." Jesus said: "For Without Me You Can Do Nothing." John: 15

In the light of what Socrates and Jesus said, is it really so strange that the world must hate the Disciples who were on the conscious path to understanding
The World Hates the Disciples

18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’[a] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’
This is the foundation necessary to acquire the ability to put new wine into new bottles.

If humanity as a whole cannot do anything or know anything as would be normal for humanity not having endured the fallen human condition. wouldn't hatred be the normal attitude for anything leading to the understanding of objective human meaning and purpose?

Hatred is the moral normal and people use morality as a means to justify their hatred. Good guys create bad guys.

So without having experienced the reality of what Socrates and Jesus said, all these arguments pertaining to religion must be based on self justifying misconceptions which the world welcomes.

Arguments about religion are grounded in a definition of religion, if religion is binding then this binding is a religious mode inseperable from the nature of man. Polytheism is the negation of this. Monism results in dualism, as reality and opinion, thus follows the same nature. One and Many, Triadic nature, allows for a binding of all of it. We see this triad reflected...well alot.


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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Nick_A » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:08 pm

Ed

N. So without having experienced the reality of what Socrates and Jesus said, all these arguments pertaining to religion must be based on self justifying misconceptions which the world welcomes.

E. Arguments about religion are grounded in a definition of religion, if religion is binding then this binding is a religious mode inseperable from the nature of man. Polytheism is the negation of this. Monism results in dualism, as reality and opinion, thus follows the same nature. One and Many, Triadic nature, allows for a binding of all of it. We see this triad reflected...well alot.

There are many definitions but if the reality is that we don't know anything about or cannot do anything to consciously evolve human being, what good are all the definitions based upon years of defensive misconceptions? The seekers of truth who objectively seek to experience reality at the expense of the majority fixated on acquired misconceptions must be hated and at times even killed. From Plato's cave allegory:
[Socrates] And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows with the prisoners who had never moved out of the cave, while his sight was still weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable) would he not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch the offender, and they would put him to death.
It has taken me a while to verify how and why in the world seekers of objective truth must be hated in defense of their misconceptions.. But it is what it is. Of course it destroys the goal of philosophy in the world but for genuine seekers of truth this need to hate reveals why the goal of real philosophy and the essence of religion is necessary for the survival of humanity.

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:24 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:08 pm
Ed

N. So without having experienced the reality of what Socrates and Jesus said, all these arguments pertaining to religion must be based on self justifying misconceptions which the world welcomes.

E. Arguments about religion are grounded in a definition of religion, if religion is binding then this binding is a religious mode inseperable from the nature of man. Polytheism is the negation of this. Monism results in dualism, as reality and opinion, thus follows the same nature. One and Many, Triadic nature, allows for a binding of all of it. We see this triad reflected...well alot.

There are many definitions but if the reality is that we don't know anything about or cannot do anything to consciously evolve human being, what good are all the definitions based upon years of defensive misconceptions? The seekers of truth who objectively seek to experience reality at the expense of the majority fixated on acquired misconceptions must be hated and at times even killed. From Plato's cave allegory:
[Socrates] And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows with the prisoners who had never moved out of the cave, while his sight was still weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable) would he not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch the offender, and they would put him to death.
The "definitions" are gods.

This may seem obscure at first.

When we defined something, we encapsulate it into something we can relate to. This definition in turn acts a guiding measure for our lives, much like a God. We see this with basic prayers or mantras to a lesser God, where some element is the pscyhe the god represents is viewed as an entity in itself.

So a person praying to the God of war, is actually meditating on the nature of war and embodying these patterns (courage, intelligence, etc.). These patterns, when anthropormized, are Gods. These Gods are the mythos or stories of interplaying aspects of the psyche.

The pattern, when not viewed as anthropomorphized, are the logos or "word", "plan". This at its core is just symbolism. Words are symbols, symbols are patterns. Plans are definitions through words, thus patterns as well. So when worshipping the "God of War" the pscyhe assumes patterns and integrates them.

A basic pattern under this would be just "divergence" or the ability to take one thing and reduce it to multiple states. We see this in war, it is taking one side and reducing it to parts. Thus we seek how a God of War may have as sibling the God of Wisdom or "analysis" considering this same process of divergence manifests itself in a variety of manners.

Thus these stories, or definitions of reality, are created Gods we worship by assuming there basic behavior and losing oneself to this behavior. This loss of self to the "god" is an act of sacrifice, and in a simpler agrarian culture where one worked and was paid in food, the sacrifice of food was a sacrifice of a part of there inherent identity in these simpler times.

They are reaching deep into the subconsciousness and pulling out basic archetypal patterns and embodying them by sacrifice.

Stories are Gods and gods are stories. They are worshipped or "praised" when they are told.
And when they are told they become embodied within the perspective and it becomes a loop.


It has taken me a while to verify how and why in the world seekers of objective truth must be hated in defense of their misconceptions.. But it is what it is. Of course it destroys the goal of philosophy in the world but for genuine seekers of truth this need to hate reveals why the goal of real philosophy and the essence of religion is necessary for the survival of humanity.
People hate truth when they do not embody it because it creates a sense of tension that disrupts their false peace.

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:08 am

There are many religions that are actively adopted by many people. It is likely 90% of the 7+ billion of people at present are religiously oriented. Thus there must be something positive [pros] from these religions that sustain their survival.
But naturally there are always the very obvious negatives cons that are associated with religions and organized religions.

The the OP should be 'Good Religion, and the net-Good It Can Do'.
As long as there are net-Good in any religion, it will continue to be active.

But change is the only constant and circumstances can change where once the net-good of a religion can turn into a net-negative for some or all religion in the future.

The trend of the net-good eroding is very obvious in religions as more and more people are becoming less religious as evident by the increasing trend of [a]theist, declining church attendance, abandonment of churches, extensive criticisms of religions' associated evil and violent acts, etc.

With the increasing trend of the exponential expansion of knowledge and technology, more and more of the religions' negativity are exposed [especially with the Abrahamic religions].

As Science and technology advances its pros are also a serious potential negativity for religion, e.g. Islam.
Islam do not give preference to life on Earth. With easy access [blackmarket, etc.] Muslims jihadists will be able to by cheap WMDs [nuclear, biological, etc] and exterminate the human species of Earth as it is win-win for them ending being highly rewarded with eternal life in paradise a bonus of eternal virgins thrown in.

Due to the inherent nature of religions, it is most likely whatever their net-good at present will be eroded to become net-negative some time in the future.

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Nick_A » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:16 am

Eod, You have given as I understand it, a good description of how idolatry or the false gods of the world come to be. But this raises the question if a conscious Source for our universe is a reality. Are all these false gods just the result of imagination or a devolution of ideas which have their being in the world of forms?

Simone Weil wrote in Lectures on Philosophy:

If anyone is not able to understand the unchanging patterns of things, that is not due to a lack of intelligence; it is due to a lack of moral stamina.

If she is right, humanity as a whole lacks the power of conscious attention necessary to become open to and experience the reality behind the many expressions of idolatry. Lacking moral stamina, humanity remains fixated on the shadows on the wall.

The seeker of truth has felt the reality behind idolatry and must find those capable of offering help essential to acquire understanding. They see that the great god of the Great Beast has become the most powerful form of idolatry in the world. The idea has become dominant in the modern progressive psych. As you can see, the seeker of truth questioning the omnipotence of the Great Beast must be scorned, ridiculed, and hated. Regardless of these attitudes, is there a way for the seeker of truth to acquire the power of conscious attention in the modern world governed by technology leading to the loss of conscious attention necessary to experience the unchanging patterns of things?

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:57 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:16 am
Eod, You have given as I understand it, a good description of how idolatry or the false gods of the world come to be. But this raises the question if a conscious Source for our universe is a reality. Are all these false gods just the result of imagination or a devolution of ideas which have their being in the world of forms?

Is a point imaginary?

Simone Weil wrote in Lectures on Philosophy:

If anyone is not able to understand the unchanging patterns of things, that is not due to a lack of intelligence; it is due to a lack of moral stamina.

If she is right, humanity as a whole lacks the power of conscious attention necessary to become open to and experience the reality behind the many expressions of idolatry. Lacking moral stamina, humanity remains fixated on the shadows on the wall.

People need gods as gods are just metaphors for how reality works. They act as the patterns that help us assume reality into an ordered form. This need for stories, a need for the word, necessitate an inherently half sided passive state to humanity where an "active" word completes us.

The seeker of truth has felt the reality behind idolatry and must find those capable of offering help essential to acquire understanding. They see that the great god of the Great Beast has become the most powerful form of idolatry in the world. The idea has become dominant in the modern progressive psych.
Yes, but rather than integrating the beast they kicked "the beast out", and when the rhythm of polarity swings back in the course of time, they end up becoming slaves. The beast is a representation of our fear and lack of wholism resulting from an absence of love (eros, philios, agape) in the proper aligned contexts.

We created the beast.


As you can see, the seeker of truth questioning the omnipotence of the Great Beast must be scorned, ridiculed, and hated. Regardless of these attitudes, is there a way for the seeker of truth to acquire the power of conscious attention in the modern world governed by technology leading to the loss of conscious attention necessary to experience the unchanging patterns of things?



Meditate on the Sphere and the Cross,

become empty of any sense of self (this emptiness is natural and good), pay mind to your thoughts/actions/feelings,

assume all of reality,

seek refuge (stillness) or create it...fight for it tooth and nail if you have too.


A war between principalities (principles of the universe) is here, and it is about to become full blown soon.

The battle cry of the philosopher, all people bu default, for the 21st century is a simple question: "Who is like God?"

Humanity has the right to stillness, for the stillness is where we assume reality for what it is. Perpetual distraction is a sin against the human condition.

You will learned more and be far more entertained (in both the good and the bad) if you just pay mind to your own mind.

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Nick_A » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:30 am

Eod
Is a point imaginary?
It depends upon how you define a point. I learned that a point is a limit. The first dimension is an infinite line of points. We can see a one dimensional line but cannot see a point which has no dimensions. So I conclude that a point is a reality beyond our power of perception existing above Plato’s divided line. This limit is experienced by us below Plato’s divided line as dimensions.

I agree with you as to the value of meditation. It does seem that something more is needed to cope with the rapidity of modern life that forces us into a fixation with the shadows on the wall. Years ago the experience of awe and wonder were considered the means to nourish ones being as does meditation. But awe and wonder as desirable qualities for contemplation have been replaced by the ever changing images offered by a remote. Is it any wonder why the quality of human being (human perspective) is lessening as knowledge of facts increases?

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Tesla » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:13 pm

RCSaunders wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:27 pm


All religion is mistaken, not just the brand being promoted by Fr. Jeffrey Kirby, but, unlike the religious, I really have no desire or intention of changing the views or practices of anyone who chooses to embrace some religion, nor do I judge them. I know the harm mistaken beliefs do to those who hold them, but everyone has their own mind and must use them to make their own choices about what to believe, what to think, what to do, and how to live their life. If I had a religion, that would be it.
Plato and Aristotle are sitting around talking about their theories on the soul. The reality is, they have no Idea how thoughts occur, and Plato surmised that since they are intangible, that they exist independent of the body. now granted, this is happening somewhere around 650 B.C.E. So ill try not to be too hard on them. They did after all invent what still today could be called the modern definition of the soul.

Plato: Oh! my good student Aristotle! what wonderful news have you brought today? I have been thinking about your latest writings on the soul!
Aristotle: My good teacher! I have taken all you had to offer me, and have expounded on it until it makes practical sense to even the most nonsensical student! Oh!? who is your friend.
Plato: This man here is from the future! His name is Tesla. He was telling me he has evidence that thoughts are not independent of the body and is proposing an experiment!
Tesla: Hello! Good day sir! I indeed can prove to you that thoughts require the body, and so that when one dies, the thoughts perish with it! You see here this iron Rod?
[Plato and Aristotle both look over the iron rod]
Aristotle: Well, yes I see it is a magnificent iron rod, quite heavy. But how will it aid in this experience?
[Tesla whacks Aristotle on the head with the rod]
Tesla: My dear Plato, now try to speak to Aristotle.
[Aristotle moans]
Plato: my dear Aristotle! have you been murdered?
Aristotle: unn...munf gom blah...
Tesla: See now my wise teacher? his thoughts have been destroyed by the rod by a simple smack to the head, yet all the body remains intact besides the bump on the head. So when he does die, many years hence, will his soul speak the gibberish that he will now speak the remainder of his days, or will it regain the ability to speak of a soul? The thoughts happen in the brain that is in the head my dear friend, and is not independent of its faculty!



lesson: There is an ultimate truth. From a trusted source the truth can win in ideological guidance, however, purpose requires a base philosophy to guide ideologies. for this reason, I advocate evidence based belief as that foundation. Individually, we must have a purpose to be healthy. Religion is a huge problem for humanity. Education is the answer. more and more people are abandoning religions and that fact has enraged many of the religious. Truth has power, and proliferation of truth needs ethical trusted sources in higher education to promote it. I came here to throw a pebble down that mountain hoping to reach the right person who could start that discussion with higher education to see if a landslide could happen. But keep in mind, were discussing people who have lived with a world view their entire lives to accept another. that is not easy for anyone to live through. it will take time and debate, proper non-sophist argument to determine realities truth. and it has to be between the proper powers that be to get it out.

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by RCSaunders » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:05 am

Hi Tesla,
Tesla wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:13 pm
lesson: There is an ultimate truth. From a trusted source the truth can win in ideological guidance, however, purpose requires a base philosophy to guide ideologies. for this reason, I advocate evidence based belief as that foundation. Individually, we must have a purpose to be healthy. Religion is a huge problem for humanity. Education is the answer ...
I don't know what you mean by an, "ultimate truth." There is objective truth, but it is not a, "thing." Objective truth is an attribute of every correct proposition about any aspect of reality. Maybe that is what you have in mind.

I regard all ideologies as I do religions. There is no right, "-ism."

All problems are individual problems. There are no, "problems for humanity," because "humanity" has no purpose, only individual human beings have goals, purposes, or objectives. Religion is certainly a problem for the majority of individuals, but it is not some kind of universal problem.

If by education you only mean the solution to that gullibility and credulity that swallows religious teaching is learning and knowledge I agree. If by education you mean something that some people are supposed to do to others (educate them), I regard that as a form oppression or intrusion in others lives.

The purpose of our lives is not to solve the problems of the world and make everyone else happy, the purpose of our lives is to live as well as we possibly can as human beings,,and happily enjoy our own lives.

I don't mean to be arguing with you, because you are quite right that, "evidence," is the only sound foundation of knowledge and everything that attempts to cast doubt on or question evidence based knowledge is sophistry. Just don't expect many others to agree with you.

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Re: Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do

Post by Tesla » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:44 am

Hi Tesla,
Tesla wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:13 pm
lesson: There is an ultimate truth. From a trusted source the truth can win in ideological guidance, however, purpose requires a base philosophy to guide ideologies. for this reason, I advocate evidence based belief as that foundation. Individually, we must have a purpose to be healthy. Religion is a huge problem for humanity. Education is the answer ...
I don't know what you mean by an, "ultimate truth." There is objective truth, but it is not a, "thing." Objective truth is an attribute of every correct proposition about any aspect of reality. Maybe that is what you have in mind.

yes

I regard all ideologies as I do religions. There is no right, "-ism."

I agree.

All problems are individual problems. There are no, "problems for humanity," because "humanity" has no purpose, only individual human beings have goals, purposes, or objectives. Religion is certainly a problem for the majority of individuals, but it is not some kind of universal problem.

I disagree. A community has issues they solve together for self preservation. then a city, a county, a state, a country, a planet. humanity is the species as a whole (How I'm using it). When the whole is threatened, people work together to solve the issues that threaten the whole, because it threatens the individual.

If by education you only mean the solution to that gullibility and credulity that swallows religious teaching is learning and knowledge I agree. If by education you mean something that some people are supposed to do to others (educate them), I regard that as a form oppression or intrusion in others lives.

I mean pass knowledge on to our children, but the right knowledge that builds on the old with even more valuable new. humans are gullible. we have to trust sources because, how can we 'know'? most info is second third or more in hand.

The purpose of our lives is not to solve the problems of the world and make everyone else happy, the purpose of our lives is to live as well as we possibly can as human beings,,and happily enjoy our own lives.

The purpose of a life is decided by the individual. you can agree to ones for you, but others will define their own. a master purpose to guide us all would be great...that's why I took philosophy. I didn't find the answers, just new questions. but I did learn that one person can make a difference when others agree

I don't mean to be arguing with you, because you are quite right that, "evidence," is the only sound foundation of knowledge and everything that attempts to cast doubt on or question evidence based knowledge is sophistry. Just don't expect many others to agree with you.


yeah...I like your reasoning too as a whole. I'm almost out of time to chat here for awhile. life calls and all that. But I'm glad there are more than just me who believe that evidence based belief is the right way to go.

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