Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

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Logik
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Logik » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:46 pm

dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:25 pm
Thank you. You can name several falsifiers but don't name one.
Sustained growth of the north and south pole ice caps.
Measured reduction of CO2 content in the atmosphere normalized to 1900 levels.
dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:25 pm
You say I'm arrogant - when my post was cautionary - but you, certain that experts can't be wrong are not.
My post is cautionary PRECISELY because experts can be wrong. They COULD be wrong on global warming. or they COULD be right. Take it as 50/50 odds for all I care.

The scearnio where they are right is worse!
dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:25 pm
Thank you. QED. Remember Pascal's wager? You must agree that most religious experts - bar a few C of E bishops in the UK - are sure there's a God waiting for us with prizes and punishments. So.You're a believer on those grounds?
No, I am not - bevause it's not the same gamble. The difference between Pascal's wager and Global warming is what's at stake. 1 soul vs 8 billion souls.

The presence of absolute, final and permanent ruin (human extinction) does NOT allow for cost-benefit analysis.
For a more succint explanation of this point you are welcome to read this essay: https://medium.com/incerto/the-logic-of ... 7bf41029d3
dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:25 pm
Forget that there's a nice safe income and the pleasure of lecturing folks as a motive for these experts.
Yes. There are perverse incentives at play here. AND despite that - if global warming is true, we are still at risk of extinction.
dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:25 pm
I am also certain that the idea that humans are wholly responsible for whatever is going on - assuming by the way that we should actually care - appeals to our vanity: the same vanity that thinks Homo sapiens is evolution's last word. I would support coastal defences and land reclamation now - in Bangladesh for example if the corrupt government could be dealt with. I also think artificial cloud-making has possibilities for cooling the arctic. But I'm not a scientist. I believe Dyson's people are looking at tech solutions but of course we'd all rather listen to the no-talent people telling us the end is high. (It is according to Newton - 2060 when all the solar systems energy is exhausted. See you then!)
Whether we are or aren't responsible for global warming is neither here nor there.

IF global warming is true AND it continues in the same direction THEN the biosphere will change. Maybe for the better. Maybe for the worse. The current equilibrium we, humans, enjoy will be disrupted. A new equilibrium will become the norm.
Maybe the new equilibrium well be better for us.
Maybe the new equilibrium will be worse for us.

For all intents and purposes treat the odds as 50/50 for all I care.

It is literally a case of 'better the devil you know'!

Nick_A
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Nick_A » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:48 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:47 pm
Nick_A wrote: Have i writen anything that contradicts the intent of Plato or kierkegaard?
That'll be a no then, you haven't bothered to read him but have an opinion on what the author of the article, who obviously has, has said.

You mean what you think was their intent and that intent is coloured by your pet peeve of the state of American institutions, as evidenced by you once again turning the conversation to your pet peeve.
What good is it for me to write that I've read Plato or Kierkegaard? Why believe me? So instead I asked you to point out where I've got it wrong. My pet peeve concerns the reason why American and other institutions go wrong. They prevent what is necessary for the young to awaken to the human condition within themselves. I call it spirit killing. What is it about people calling themselves educated that they can experience such satisfaction through spirit killing? It is a question rather than a complaint but if you want to call it a pet peeve, it is OK with me. But in reality why complain when it is possible to understand the attraction to spirit killing through efforts to know thyself. The trouble is that spirit killers don't seek understanding. They seek self justification through complaining and promoting self serving imagination.

dorothea
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by dorothea » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:49 pm

Okay. I don't think we have major differences. Kierkegaard got lost somewhere though.

Logik
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Logik » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:51 pm

-1- wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:34 pm
Dorothea, there is no point in arguing with Logik. He is a narcissist. He is clever enough, but not as clever as he thinks he is. And he tries to prove at all times that he is the smartest in the room.
Idiot. At all times I am doing my HARDEST to prove myself wrong! You aren't privy to that information so you interpret what I am doing as 'trying to be right'. Is that perhaps you projecting?

And when it comes to proving oneself wrong 20 contrarians/philosophers are better than 1. This is Cunningham's law in action.
I couldn't give a crap how 'smart' I am for I don't measure myself against others. I measure myself against that which I do not know.

You want to play that game? My IQ is 165. Maybe that impresses you - I don't know.
It would certainly do me a lot of good for you to believe that it measures some kind of intellect, because IF that were the case then there's only 0.000290578% chance that there is anybody with a higher IQ than me on this forum (source: https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqtable.aspx ). Then you could totally bow down to my intellect and kiss my ass.

And yet. Here I am - calling out IQ as pseudo-scientific bullshit. It's not a measure of intelligence. It's a measure of UNINTELLIGENCE.
Which is NOT the same thing. Values below 85 are meaningful. Values above 85 are meaningless in practice.

https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largel ... 31c101ba39

Way to undermine myself, and shit on your character assassination, eh?
-1- wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:34 pm
In fact, he has good ideas, but if you present him with good ideas, then he will come back with bad ideas, trying to prove someone else's good ideas wrong. Clearly, he strives to show that he is the smartest person in the room.
If a "good idea" survives the most brutal assault and contact with reality then it's a good idea!

I am good at the 'brutal assault' thing! My episteme is forged by fire.

The difference between trying to be right and trying to be less wrong is worlds apart.

dorothea
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by dorothea » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:05 pm

You want to play that game? My IQ is 165. Maybe that impresses you - I don't know.


Nice figure if the standard deviation is 15, but not if its 30 which is what I believe mensa use. Irrelevant though, as you say.
Very frustrating issue this month I thought. I really can't get interested in free will, selfhood and so on. If it's not about ethics - what the world needs more than anything - I can't get involved. I'm putting off reading it. (Sorry Kierkegaard). Was struck by the Philippa Foot note though. An obvious mistake on her part - or am I missing something?

Logik
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Logik » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:13 pm

dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:05 pm
I really can't get interested in free will, selfhood and so on. If it's not about ethics - what the world needs more than anything - I can't get involved.
What is ethics about if not selfhood? The continued existence of humans and humanity.
If we become extinct there is no selfhood to worry about...

What is global warming if not an an opportunity to exercise free will?

We can choose to ignore it. Or choose to do something about it.

In due time Natural Selection will determine who was 'right' and who was 'wrong'...

Nick_A
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Nick_A » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:29 pm

From the article. Kierkegaard wrote:
“if a person does not do what is right at the very second he knows it – then knowing simmers down. Next comes the question of how willing appraises what is known. Willing is dialectical and has under it the entire lower nature of man. If willing does not agree with what is known, then it does not necessarily follow that willing goes ahead and does the opposite of what willing understood… rather willing allows some time to elapse, an interim called: ‘We shall look at it tomorrow’. During all this, knowing becomes more and more obscure, and the lower nature gains the upper hand more and more; alas, for the good must be done immediately, as soon as it is known… the lower nature’s power lies in stretching things out… And when knowing has become duly obscured, knowing and willing can better understand each other; eventually they agree completely, for now knowing has come over to the side of willing and admits that what [willing] wants is absolutely right.”

Kierkegaard is convinced that at some level we understand that doing the right thing will frequently bring us into collision with what we perceive to be our short and even long term self-interests.
As an aside:
“One must not think slightingly of the paradoxical…for the paradox is the source of the thinker’s passion, and the thinker without a paradox is like a lover without feeling: a paltry mediocrity.” Kierkegaard
The human condition refers to the opposition between our higher and lower natures. Those whose minds are still open and alive on the inside wonder why people carrying peace signs are hitting each other over the head. Something doesn't seem right. The spirit killers on the other hand will just claim that this type of questioning just gets in the way of doing the right thing. The right thing is defined by what those in authority want you to do. Doing the right thing solves the problem of procrastination since the right people are being killed.

For some reason there are still those alive on the inside wondering why this is happening and if that is all there is. A good reason to have an existential crisis. So the best way to solve the existential crisis is just not to think about it and just hit the right people over the head with your peace sign. Trust the authorities to tell you who the right people are for your attack. But then there are those unmentionables and deplorables like Simone Weil who encourage questioning and conscious experiential knowledge and awareness of the human condition.. They should all be banished to Siberia so there should be greater efforts to silence them.

Kierkegaard describes the joy in contemplation of the paradox. Of course wrong contemplation attracts the scorn of spirit killers which is not easy for some to deal with. Don't think. Just follow the dictates of your progressive superiors and polish your peace sign. The Great Beast needs your defense.

Walker
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Walker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:37 pm

dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:05 pm
You want to play that game? My IQ is 165. Maybe that impresses you - I don't know.
It impresses me.

I'd appreciate your views, if you're of a mind.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25715&p=396224#p396224

dorothea
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by dorothea » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:49 pm

Walker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:37 pm
dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:05 pm
You want to play that game? My IQ is 165. Maybe that impresses you - I don't know.
It impresses me.

I'd appreciate your views, if you're of a mind.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25715&p=396224#p396224
Not me - I was responding to someone else who made the claim - I'm having difficulty replying to specific people. Sorry.

Walker
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Walker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:52 pm

dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:49 pm
Walker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:37 pm
dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:05 pm
You want to play that game? My IQ is 165. Maybe that impresses you - I don't know.
It impresses me.

I'd appreciate your views, if you're of a mind.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25715&p=396224#p396224
Not me - I was responding to someone else who made the claim - I'm having difficulty replying to specific people. Sorry.
Your views are appreciated no matter the number.

:)

Nick_A
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Nick_A » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:16 am

dorothea wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:25 pm
I am also certain that the idea that humans are wholly responsible for whatever is going on - assuming by the way that we should actually care - appeals to our vanity: the same vanity that thinks Homo sapiens is evolution's last word. I would support coastal defences and land reclamation now - in Bangladesh for example if the corrupt government could be dealt with. I also think artificial cloud-making has possibilities for cooling the arctic. But I'm not a scientist. I believe Dyson's people are looking at tech solutions but of course we'd all rather listen to the no-talent people telling us the end is high. (It is according to Newton - 2060 when all the solar systems energy is exhausted. See you then!)
If people really cared about global warming they would use less toilet paper.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/toile ... id/903608/
Americans use more toilet paper than anyone else in the world, helping destroy the habitats of native people who live where it is sourced and contributing to global warming, a research study said on Wednesday.
U.S. consumers use roughly three rolls of toilet paper a week, accounting for a fifth of the world's tissue consumption, according to the report by environmental groups Stand.earth and the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC).
Just think, if those concerned with global warming would just cut down their use of toilet paper to two rolls a week rather than three they would prove their concern. but they don't give a shit so the earth continues to get warmer

Logik
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:50 am

Nick_A wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:16 am
If people really cared about global warming they would use less toilet paper.
A scene from Demolition man and 3 seashells comes to mind...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdnuOa7tDco

Also, if people cared about global warming they'd nuke China. Yesterday.

The fastest growing economy in the world relies heavily on coal for its electrical/power needs.
China has no intention to either stop or slow down its economic growth. Or switch to cleaner sources of energy.

In fact they are investing in coal power.

So how much shit would America need to unshit to off-set China's coal emissions?

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Arising_uk
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:56 pm

Logik wrote:...

Also, if people cared about global warming they'd nuke China. Yesterday.

The fastest growing economy in the world relies heavily on coal for its electrical/power needs.
China has no intention to either stop or slow down its economic growth. Or switch to cleaner sources of energy.

In fact they are investing in coal power.

So how much shit would America need to unshit to off-set China's coal emissions?
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-s ... ?r=US&IR=T

Logik
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:59 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:56 pm
Logik wrote:...

Also, if people cared about global warming they'd nuke China. Yesterday.

The fastest growing economy in the world relies heavily on coal for its electrical/power needs.
China has no intention to either stop or slow down its economic growth. Or switch to cleaner sources of energy.

In fact they are investing in coal power.

So how much shit would America need to unshit to off-set China's coal emissions?
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-s ... ?r=US&IR=T
Do the math yourself. It doesn't move the needle.

The nett effect is 7%

That''s below Chnina's economic growth rate. They are failing to stay ahead of the curve...

in English - they are slowing down their evil, but not reversing it.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Arising_uk » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:32 am

Logik wrote: Do the math yourself. It doesn't move the needle.

The nett effect is 7%

That''s below Chnina's economic growth rate. They are failing to stay ahead of the curve...

in English - they are slowing down their evil, but not reversing it.
Be fair, we didn't even bother the only reason why we stopped is it was more cost effective to use gas and the mines shut because it was cheaper to use strip-mined coal from abroad, that and that it crushed a very bothersome and powerful union. Give 'em a chance as the difference is in their system they can get things done.

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