Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

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dorothea
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by dorothea » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:58 pm

- Aristotle
- Kant
- Confucius
- Sartre
- the Buddha
- Gichimanido
- etc. etc. etc.
All of those on your list (apart from the last I've never heard of) urged action not words as prime - Phronesis anybody?

Belinda
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Belinda » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:36 pm

Dorothea wrote:
----- If the climate is changing - as it always has,----
While it's true that the climate always has changed it's also true that the rate of change too has increased most noticeably and the increased rate of change correlates with the advent of increased human activity and economic growth.

This correlation is extremely significant .This correlation matches empirical evidence of climate change in oceans , coast lines, and the vast wild lands of North America.

dorothea
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by dorothea » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:25 pm

I think the folks around when the last ice Age struck would disagree - and the coming Ice Age, overdue on expert opinion, was what we were told to worry about in the 50s. Nukes were then supposedly accelerating matters. Would have been comets two centuries earlier. I have an allotment garden. I sometimes need to know, yes or no, if there's going to be rain tomorrow. The forecasters are more often wrong than right. They predicted ice and minus11 for Britain from mid November. We had one light dusting of snow a couple of weeks ago. How come these smart guys know so much about what will happen in 50 years, and why would anyone listen to them. To get back to philosophy - Xenophanes, my favourite quote of all time, No human knowledge is certain and all we have are woven webs of guesses.

Belinda
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Belinda » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:51 pm

Climate change is not easily to be observed from your allotment, Dorothea. As a gardener you may be more affected by soil fertility and local insect populations. If your life expectancy is to be no more than about twenty years from now climate change may not affect you very much as long as you are not in a flood prone area.

Weather is not climate. Different things.

dorothea
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by dorothea » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:47 pm

It's a religion for you isn't it? Can you name anything that would change your mind.? Nope. Thought not. As I said before, but you ignored it - even if there's a problem, it's not just people to blame, and it's no use expecting the irresponsible thugs who rule most of the world to change anything. Efforts should be focused by the West - the only civilised part of the globe - into technological remedies. Sea defences are simple and have been used since ancient times. The post 9/11 temperature changes suggest that artificial clouds might help the arctic. Who knows. You don't want to entertain that do you? I can hear you scoffing already. You want to boss people about, just like your Puritan ancestors who still blight America and other parts of the world. What would K. say? What would any noted philosopher say? Discuss.

Nick_A
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Nick_A » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:35 pm

dorothea wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:47 pm
It's a religion for you isn't it? Can you name anything that would change your mind.? Nope. Thought not. As I said before, but you ignored it - even if there's a problem, it's not just people to blame, and it's no use expecting the irresponsible thugs who rule most of the world to change anything. Efforts should be focused by the West - the only civilised part of the globe - into technological remedies. Sea defences are simple and have been used since ancient times. The post 9/11 temperature changes suggest that artificial clouds might help the arctic. Who knows. You don't want to entertain that do you? I can hear you scoffing already. You want to boss people about, just like your Puritan ancestors who still blight America and other parts of the world. What would K. say? What would any noted philosopher say? Discuss.
Secularism and its method of casting blame to achieve self justification is a good example of a corrupted religion.
Matthew 7:3-5 New International Version (NIV)

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Secularism has this misguided belief that progressive education has removed the planks in their own eyes. Heh, heh, heh, foolish child.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:28 am

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:13 am
I really should request that this thread be deleted. It is too insulting to be taken seriously by educated human beings in these times. Kierkegaard introduces the essential problem of the human condition. ...
But of course, like Plato, you won't have actually read him Nick.

Nick_A
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Nick_A » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:32 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:28 am
Nick_A wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:13 am
I really should request that this thread be deleted. It is too insulting to be taken seriously by educated human beings in these times. Kierkegaard introduces the essential problem of the human condition. ...
But of course, like Plato, you won't have actually read him Nick.
Have i writen anything that contradicts the intent of Plato or kierkegaard?

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Arising_uk
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:47 pm

Nick_A wrote: Have i writen anything that contradicts the intent of Plato or kierkegaard?
That'll be a no then, you haven't bothered to read him but have an opinion on what the author of the article, who obviously has, has said.

You mean what you think was their intent and that intent is coloured by your pet peeve of the state of American institutions, as evidenced by you once again turning the conversation to your pet peeve.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:55 pm

dorothea wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:25 pm
... To get back to philosophy - Xenophanes, my favourite quote of all time, No human knowledge is certain and all we have are woven webs of guesses.
Well to be fair those who predicted a new ice age, etc, did not command pretty much over 90% agreement of their peers upon the matter. I agree with Xenophanes, hence Mathematicians have given-up claiming truth and Physics just works with probabilties but some guesses are better than others and with respect to the world getting warmer there is no real disagreement nor do the majority of western governments disagree really, they just have no idea how to deal with it as it means a radical change in their voters lifestyles and by nature they procrastinate.
p.s.
Weather forecasts are measurably better than they were due to the application of chaos theory but hey, it is the weather and by nature an extremely complex dynamical system.

Logik
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by Logik » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:01 pm

dorothea wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:47 pm
It's a religion for you isn't it? Can you name anything that would change your mind.?
I can name very many things that can change my mind on climate change.

I also recognise that the effort to obtain the evidence requires experiments at the scale and complexity beyond the current agility of science or human knowledge. We do not have good and cheap ways to falsify it!

And so, I play out both scenarios.

Suppose that we are wrong and that climate change is false. What happens then - we spend money on alternative energy. We fuck up the economy short term, but long term we will have cheaper energy.
Suppose that we are right and that climate change is true. What happens then? We do nothing about it and we become extinct.

Between fucking up the economy and going extinct - it's a no brainer!

Are you willing to bet the future of humanity on your arrogance - the belief that you are right?
I am not!

Precautionary principle applies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle

The typical opposition to climate change/global warming is not that is/isn't happening. Is that we have no effective strategies to reverse its effects!
Whether the causes are man-made or natural is immaterial to the debate.

dorothea
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by dorothea » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:25 pm

Thank you. You can name several falsifiers but don't name one. You say I'm arrogant - when my post was cautionary - but you, certain that experts can't be wrong are not. Thank you. QED. Remember Pascal's wager? You must agree that most religious experts - bar a few C of E bishops in the UK - are sure there's a God waiting for us with prizes and punishments. So. You're a believer on those grounds? Forget that there's a nice safe income and the pleasure of lecturing folks as a motive for these experts.
I'm asserting as an incontestable fact that there is never an effect that has only one cause - Aristotle listed four types and didn't scratch the surface. I am also certain that the idea that humans are wholly responsible for whatever is going on - assuming by the way that we should actually care - appeals to our vanity: the same vanity that thinks Homo sapiens is evolution's last word. I would support coastal defences and land reclamation now - in Bangladesh for example if the corrupt government could be dealt with. I also think artificial cloud-making has possibilities for cooling the arctic. But I'm not a scientist. I believe Dyson's people are looking at tech solutions but of course we'd all rather listen to the no-talent people telling us the end is high. (It is according to Newton - 2060 when all the solar systems energy is exhausted. See you then!)

dorothea
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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by dorothea » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:32 pm

Us folks with allotment gardens would not agree that forecasts are any good at all. Climatist fanatics will say that climate is not weather - it's fun to hear them trying (not) to explain the difference. Climate is not a simple single-chain-of-causes linear system. My opinion is simple though - focus on fixing problems that might arise - sea defences, mathods of cooling/warming by tech means and so on. If the 'experts' are right it's too late to modify human beg=haviour - even if the 180 plus nations ruled by cleptocratic gangsters, rapists and thugs could be brought on side and trusted.
Last edited by dorothea on Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by -1- » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:34 pm

dorothea wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:25 pm
Thank you. You can name several falsifiers but don't name one. You say I'm arrogant - when my post was cautionary - but you, certain that experts can't be wrong are not. Thank you. QED. Remember Pascal's wager? You must agree that most religious experts - bar a few C of E bishops in the UK - are sure there's a God waiting for us with prizes and punishments. So. You're a believer on those grounds? Forget that there's a nice safe income and the pleasure of lecturing folks as a motive for these experts.
I'm asserting as an incontestable fact that there is never an effect that has only one cause - Aristotle listed four types and didn't scratch the surface. I am also certain that the idea that humans are wholly responsible for whatever is going on - assuming by the way that we should actually care - appeals to our vanity: the same vanity that thinks Homo sapiens is evolution's last word. I would support coastal defences and land reclamation now - in Bangladesh for example if the corrupt government could be dealt with. I also think artificial cloud-making has possibilities for cooling the arctic. But I'm not a scientist. I believe Dyson's people are looking at tech solutions but of course we'd all rather listen to the no-talent people telling us the end is high. (It is according to Newton - 2060 when all the solar systems energy is exhausted. See you then!)
Dorothea, there is no point in arguing with Logik. He is a narcissist. He is clever enough, but not as clever as he thinks he is. And he tries to prove at all times that he is the smartest in the room.

In fact, he has good ideas, but if you present him with good ideas, then he will come back with bad ideas, trying to prove someone else's good ideas wrong. Clearly, he strives to show that he is the smartest person in the room.

Logik is not schizophrenic like JohnDoe7 and Nick_A and many others on this board. No. He is, instead, narcissistic. Not as incoherent and nonsensical as the schizophrenic contributors, but not much easier to take him nevertheless.

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Re: Søren Kierkegaard On the Perils of Procrastination

Post by -1- » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:40 pm

One day I decided to check some historical temperature readings. The data has been taken off of several sites, and only very scanty data remained.

I mentioned it on a science board, and they virtually burnt me on the stake. I said, without data, how can you be so sure? They came back with an incredible amount of bullshit and buried me under it.

You're right, Dorothea. Climate change is a religion, and it's gaining momentum... for a while.

PC is a religion.

Counter-PC is a religion.

Abortion (pro or con) is a religion.

Religion is a religion.

Humans live for, in, by, and against religion. We have to face that, there is no escaping from it.

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