Age wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:02 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 am
And what do you propose happens to those who do not follow the
absolute moral laws, which were obviously just made up by some human beings?
Note we are not expecting the above to happen in the present.
Note we are not expecting the above to happen
ever.
Ever? Are you a God to know the future and eternity?
At least I have stated a fact of the present.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amThe objective towards the future is every individual will strive to establish their own
absolute moral laws which happen DNA wise and naturally
will be the same as everyone else.
ALL objectives are towards the future.
What happens to an individual if they will NOT strive to ...?
How do you propose an individual 'strives' to establish their OWN
absolute moral law?
The words 'strive', 'their own', and, 'which happens dna wise' could be seen to very contradictory in nature. And then to say, 'and naturally
will be the same as everyone else' is even beyond comprehension.
The above are merely postulations based on present facts.
I am optimistic they are possibilities in the near future given certain precedents.
Your counters as usual is based on ignorance, fright, and flight from exploring possibilities based on current facts and that is because you DO NOT have have any belief, hope and aspiration.
Note I have presented the link [Babies and Moral] re the inherent moral faculty in humans.
It is not difficult to
think of absolute moral laws and adopt them as guides.
Naturally, there are exceptions like you, but on average the majority humans strive to progress instinctively.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amThese absolute moral laws are not enforceable as I had stated, they are merely guides.
Where did you state that these absolute moral laws are not enforceable?
I have stated it elsewhere many times in our previous discussion.
In any case I stated in the above, the absolute moral laws are ideals, thus ideals are impossible to attain thus cannot be enforceable.
So, you are going to make up some moral laws, which you will allocate the 'absolute' word to, yet you BELIEVE that there is NO absolute, but anyway what is the purpose of making laws and then NOT enforcing them?
How can you be so backward?
I stated there are no absolute in reality but one can still think [have thoughts] of them.
I have stated many times, one can raise absolutes as standards to guide one's action for continuous improvements.
Note if I know if it is impossible to score 100% in a subjective paper from a certain professor, I will still target to achieve 100% or even 150% [impossible] and thus my highest effort will enable me to score the highest possible from that professor.
But if I do not bother because the professor is a tough nut, and perform without target but merely doing my best then I may score possibly 70% instead of a possible 95%.
It appears very contradictory to make up some random set of laws, and then supposedly NOT enforce those laws.
Nope!
The point with morality is one must start with absolute moral laws that are not enforceable because morality is not about enforcement.
Enforcement is the task of the law-makers, police & enforcers and judiciary who set laws relevant to the circumstances and enforce them.
If enforceable laws are below the moral absolute standards then the public and law makers must be mindful of the gap and strive in the future to close the gap as much as possible.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amAt that point in the future, their average moral quotient [MQ] will have to be 1000% or more than the present average MQ.
You say the laws are NOT enforceable but then you state an individuals average moral quotient 'will HAVE TO be' 100% or more than the present average. What will happen to an individual if their average moral quotient is NOT what you say it 'WILL HAVE TO BE AT?
By the way if you really BELIEVE that what you are saying here is in any way reachable, under these terms and conditions, then you have another thing coming.
Who judges an individual's so called "average moral quotient"?
I stated the average not ALL individuals.
Obviously there will be individuals like yourself at the extreme of the Bell Curve who are indifferent to morality. Since these are the hardcore minority we will leave them as they are and strive to ensure the next generation will comprise lesser of such people.
Note there are loads of methods to compute the average moral quotient and objective moral measurements.
Note axiology for example.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amIf there is a gap [Moral Gap] between the individual or group actual ethical performance and the absolute moral laws [standards] then each will have to strive to close the Moral-Ethics Gap.
Again, what happens to an individual or group that does NOT 'strive' to so call "close the Moral-Ethics Gap"?
For those who are hardcore [like you], just F them to the rubbish bin.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amSo nothing will happen to those who do not meet the standards of the absolute moral laws at any time. What will be cultivated will be a spontaneous continuous improvement program within their brain to keep improving one's moral quotient from one's existing state at one's comfortable pace.
Lol you really do make me laugh out loud some times veritas.
What WILL BE 'cultivated' will be a 'spontaneous continuous improvement program within their brain'.
Again you are very ignorant.
Note there are tons of self-development techniques out there and in the near future humanity will be able to make exponential progress.
Research on the above!
Okay let us now discuss. HOW do you propose such a thing is even possible, let alone HOW it could or would even happen?
I know the potential but I will not waste time discussing with you on this.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amIf the current generation is still short of the ideal, then preparations [??] should be made for the next generation to improve further and so on till the average actual ethical performance is as close as possible to the impossible ideals.
Not sure if you have noticed but some might argue that each generation is going BACKWARDS. NOT forwards. Morally and ethically.
Seemingly there are signs of backwardness but I believe the
trend is forwardness.
One example is, in 500 or 1800 CE how many official nations has laws that abolish Chattel Slavery. note specifically 'chattel' slavery.
Note the sudden exponential progress from the mid 1900s to the 100% of all recognized nations establishing laws on abolishment of chattel slavery. Isn't this a step forward.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amThe critical factor is, there must be actual corresponding changes and improvements to the existing inherent moral faculty within the brains of the individual.
And again, what do you propose will happen to those who do NOT follow this, at the pace you propose, or in fact go in an opposite direction of what you propose?
This all sounds very dictatorship like; If you continue to follow a certain religion and do NOT actually make corresponding changes and improvements to the existing inherent moral faculty within your brain states, then I, THE LEADER WHO MUST BE FOLLOWED, will have to take necessary action upon you.
I have stated many times whatever is to be done will be voluntary and fool proof.
The "what-is-it-in-for-me" will be made very obvious to be net-positive for the individual.
By the way are people allowed to choose and follow ISLAM and continue to be MUSLIMS, for example, under YOUR proposal here?
Under my proposals, people will voluntarily wean themselves off Islam naturally to opt for more net-positive methods to deal with their inherent unavoidable existential crisis.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amThe question to the above is HOW and WHEN we expect reasonable results?
As I suggested above, this could NEVER happen.
Playing God again? I believe the majority of humans will just leave you to yourself and hope the next generation of people will comprised of lesser people like you.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amNote I have already stated the above model is not impossible because it is already happening with specific aspects of morality which are empirically evident. Note the case of the progress and abolishment of
chattel [nb] slavery since >500 years ago to its present status.
And after 500 years of human being slavery and it still existing in the year called 2019, you feel highlighting this fact is success or failure on the human being part?
As usual, you missed my point.
I stated the fact that all nations has now implemented Laws on the abolishment of chattel slavery. note 'chattel' not any general form of slavery.
Being humans, obviously there will be non-compliances by some hardcore people but the existence of those laws will provide at least a goal post to enable the individual government and human rights group to demand and pressure those nations with low performance to comply and improve.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:30 amUnfortunately for you, improvements in moral quotient will not happen to you because you do not have beliefs, i.e. beliefs the above model is possible in the future for yourself and future generations. You will be the exception to my model.
If 'I' am the exception, then that is just fine with Me.
At your discretion.