Making Children Moral

Discussion of articles that appear in the magazine.

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A_Seagull
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Re: Making Children Moral

Post by A_Seagull » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:15 am

Philosophy Now wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:28 am
In the first part of our mini-series on moral education, Michael Hand considers whether schools should be involved in trying to make children moral.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/127/Ma ... dren_Moral
Perhaps a good start would be to make philosophers moral.

For it certainly seems to me that many of them, would fail the test of morality. Many of them are self indulgent and are only interested in promoting their own wacky ideas which they then have the temerity to claim to be true.

Age
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Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:23 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:26 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:56 am
Young children are moral.

Adults are immoral. ...
At what age do these children become 'immoral'?
When they become adulterated, and thus turn into adults.

Age
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Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:26 am

Walker wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:51 am
To be moral is to behave, so teach kids to behave. Proper behavior does not suppress the child. Knowing how to behave properly in new situations provides the framework which is necessary for understanding appropriateness and the nature of being conditioned. What's old is new again.
Is behaving "properly" in your household the exact same as in EVERY household in the world?

If yes, then great. But,
If no, then how do i, or any child, KNOW what is acceptable and proper behavior in YOUR household?

Walker
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Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Walker » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:28 am

The same way a kid is walkin and talkin, singin and dancin by age two.

Osmosis.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:04 am

Age wrote: When they become adulterated, and thus turn into adults.
And that's when?

Age
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Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am

Walker wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:28 am
The same way a kid is walkin and talkin, singin and dancin by age two.

Osmosis.
Is this joke, or are you somehow trying to be serious?

Age
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Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:06 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:04 am
Age wrote: When they become adulterated, and thus turn into adults.
And that's when?
That is certainly NOT for me to decide.

Walker
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Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Walker » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:25 pm

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am
Walker wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:28 am
The same way a kid is walkin and talkin, singin and dancin by age two.

Osmosis.
Is this joke, or are you somehow trying to be serious?
As easily as learning language a child can osmosisize appropriate behavior into responsible adulthood and thus realize freedom under all the rules.

Which is in reply to your following past observation of:
Age wrote:Is behaving "properly" in your household the exact same as in EVERY household in the world?

If yes, then great. But,
If no, then how do i, or any child, KNOW what is acceptable and proper behavior in YOUR household?

Age
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:26 pm

Walker wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:25 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am
Walker wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:28 am
The same way a kid is walkin and talkin, singin and dancin by age two.

Osmosis.
Is this joke, or are you somehow trying to be serious?
As easily as learning language a child can osmosisize appropriate behavior into responsible adulthood and thus realize freedom under all the rules.

Which is in reply to your following past observation of:
Age wrote:Is behaving "properly" in your household the exact same as in EVERY household in the world?

If yes, then great. But,
If no, then how do i, or any child, KNOW what is acceptable and proper behavior in YOUR household?
I think you have missed understanding my clarifying questions for what they really are.

I was not stating an observation that I had made at all. I just asked you two clarifying questions. The first question was seeking a yes/no answer. The second question was in relation to if you answered no.

Your reply was a response, but I do not see it as being in response to my clarifying questions at all.

As for your stated observation, I see osmosis as being true too, however, your reply is also conditioned very much on a definition of and for the words 'appropriate', 'responsible', 'freedom', and 'under the rules' as these are highly subjective terminology. Some might even suggest that the words "freedom under the rules" could be seen as a contradiction in terms.

However, in saying all that, what you are talking about is a child under your care for a period of time. What I was talking about and now obviously what I should have made more clear was how would i, or any child NOT IN YOUR CARE, KNOW what is acceptable, proper, and appropriate behavior, TO YOU, in YOUR household?

How much time in your "care" is needed before "appropriate behavior" osmosisizes into a child, to your OWN set of guidelines and rules? And, then how much time is needed before this happens in children to EVERY adult's own set of guidelines and rules? Or, is there only one set of guidelines and rules that EVERY adult agrees with, which the understanding of, and the following of, by ALL children SHOULD osmosisize within?

AlexW
Posts: 365
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Re: Making Children Moral

Post by AlexW » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:51 am

True morality can not come from a belief system, it cannot come from rules or any other conceptual content.
It can only blossom from true knowledge. Thus, as long as the knowledge that is being "osmosised" by the child stems from people acting and teaching from a perspective of separation, morality will never be True - it can, at best, be socially acceptable (according to the society the child has been brought up in), but it can and will never be moral in a universal way.
In my opinion, the only way to achieve just that is that first adults have to question and overcome their own belief systems and reach for as well as embody real knowledge. Only then can a child, via adults leading by example, develop a truly "moralistic" personality - by seeing through this very personality and living from the truth of their real, undivided essence truly moral action arises automatically and is not based on indoctrination and belief.

Walker
Posts: 6309
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Walker » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:41 am

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:26 pm
Walker wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:25 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am


Is this joke, or are you somehow trying to be serious?
As easily as learning language a child can osmosisize appropriate behavior into responsible adulthood and thus realize freedom under all the rules.

Which is in reply to your following past observation of:
Age wrote:Is behaving "properly" in your household the exact same as in EVERY household in the world?

If yes, then great. But,
If no, then how do i, or any child, KNOW what is acceptable and proper behavior in YOUR household?
I think you have missed understanding my clarifying questions for what they really are.

I was not stating an observation that I had made at all. I just asked you two clarifying questions. The first question was seeking a yes/no answer. The second question was in relation to if you answered no.

Your reply was a response, but I do not see it as being in response to my clarifying questions at all.

As for your stated observation, I see osmosis as being true too, however, your reply is also conditioned very much on a definition of and for the words 'appropriate', 'responsible', 'freedom', and 'under the rules' as these are highly subjective terminology. Some might even suggest that the words "freedom under the rules" could be seen as a contradiction in terms.

However, in saying all that, what you are talking about is a child under your care for a period of time. What I was talking about and now obviously what I should have made more clear was how would i, or any child NOT IN YOUR CARE, KNOW what is acceptable, proper, and appropriate behavior, TO YOU, in YOUR household?

How much time in your "care" is needed before "appropriate behavior" osmosisizes into a child, to your OWN set of guidelines and rules? And, then how much time is needed before this happens in children to EVERY adult's own set of guidelines and rules? Or, is there only one set of guidelines and rules that EVERY adult agrees with, which the understanding of, and the following of, by ALL children SHOULD osmosisize within?
Sure, all that was considered, and answered at the next step beyond your clarifying questions before they were asked, minus the long and winding road.

Walker
Posts: 6309
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Walker » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:43 am

AlexW wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:51 am
True morality can not come from a belief system, it cannot come from rules or any other conceptual content.
It can only blossom from true knowledge. Thus, as long as the knowledge that is being "osmosised" by the child stems from people acting and teaching from a perspective of separation, morality will never be True - it can, at best, be socially acceptable (according to the society the child has been brought up in), but it can and will never be moral in a universal way.
In my opinion, the only way to achieve just that is that first adults have to question and overcome their own belief systems and reach for as well as embody real knowledge. Only then can a child, via adults leading by example, develop a truly "moralistic" personality - by seeing through this very personality and living from the truth of their real, undivided essence truly moral action arises automatically and is not based on indoctrination and belief.
It also comes from honest, sincere and loving attentiveness to the child.

Age
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Age » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:58 am

Walker wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:41 am
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:26 pm
Walker wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:25 pm

As easily as learning language a child can osmosisize appropriate behavior into responsible adulthood and thus realize freedom under all the rules.

Which is in reply to your following past observation of:
I think you have missed understanding my clarifying questions for what they really are.

I was not stating an observation that I had made at all. I just asked you two clarifying questions. The first question was seeking a yes/no answer. The second question was in relation to if you answered no.

Your reply was a response, but I do not see it as being in response to my clarifying questions at all.

As for your stated observation, I see osmosis as being true too, however, your reply is also conditioned very much on a definition of and for the words 'appropriate', 'responsible', 'freedom', and 'under the rules' as these are highly subjective terminology. Some might even suggest that the words "freedom under the rules" could be seen as a contradiction in terms.

However, in saying all that, what you are talking about is a child under your care for a period of time. What I was talking about and now obviously what I should have made more clear was how would i, or any child NOT IN YOUR CARE, KNOW what is acceptable, proper, and appropriate behavior, TO YOU, in YOUR household?

How much time in your "care" is needed before "appropriate behavior" osmosisizes into a child, to your OWN set of guidelines and rules? And, then how much time is needed before this happens in children to EVERY adult's own set of guidelines and rules? Or, is there only one set of guidelines and rules that EVERY adult agrees with, which the understanding of, and the following of, by ALL children SHOULD osmosisize within?
Sure, all that was considered, and answered at the next step beyond your clarifying questions before they were asked, minus the long and winding road.
Sure was NOT.

Age
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Making Children Moral

Post by Age » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:00 am

Walker wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:43 am
AlexW wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:51 am
True morality can not come from a belief system, it cannot come from rules or any other conceptual content.
It can only blossom from true knowledge. Thus, as long as the knowledge that is being "osmosised" by the child stems from people acting and teaching from a perspective of separation, morality will never be True - it can, at best, be socially acceptable (according to the society the child has been brought up in), but it can and will never be moral in a universal way.
In my opinion, the only way to achieve just that is that first adults have to question and overcome their own belief systems and reach for as well as embody real knowledge. Only then can a child, via adults leading by example, develop a truly "moralistic" personality - by seeing through this very personality and living from the truth of their real, undivided essence truly moral action arises automatically and is not based on indoctrination and belief.
It also comes from honest, sincere and loving attentiveness to the child.
Sure, does.

AlexW
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:53 am

Re: Making Children Moral

Post by AlexW » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:22 am

Walker wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:43 am
AlexW wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:51 am
True morality can not come from a belief system, it cannot come from rules or any other conceptual content.
It can only blossom from true knowledge. Thus, as long as the knowledge that is being "osmosised" by the child stems from people acting and teaching from a perspective of separation, morality will never be True - it can, at best, be socially acceptable (according to the society the child has been brought up in), but it can and will never be moral in a universal way.
In my opinion, the only way to achieve just that is that first adults have to question and overcome their own belief systems and reach for as well as embody real knowledge. Only then can a child, via adults leading by example, develop a truly "moralistic" personality - by seeing through this very personality and living from the truth of their real, undivided essence truly moral action arises automatically and is not based on indoctrination and belief.
It also comes from honest, sincere and loving attentiveness to the child.
Yes, fully agree.

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