Could a Robot be Conscious?

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commonsense
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Re: Could a Robot be Conscious?

Post by commonsense » Sat May 12, 2018 9:12 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 4:17 am
QuantumT wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:21 am
Ask yourself: Am I conscious?

If yes, then an artificial being can be conscious!

Why? Because we are AI's!
That's like asking, "Does a bird fly?"

"If yes then an artificial being can fly."

"Why? Because birds are AI

No. No.

And we are naturally intelligent, not AI.
Some corrections are needed to show what was missed in the bird comparison:

That's like asking, "Does a bird fly?"

"If yes then an artificial being can or cannot fly."

"Why? Because neither an artificial being nor your thoughts have anything to do with the flight of birds

No. No. The analogy of birds flying for humans thinking is flawed.

And possibly we are naturally intelligent, and possibly not AI.

jayjacobus
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Re: Could a Robot be Conscious?

Post by jayjacobus » Sun May 13, 2018 2:31 pm

The analogy is not true because birds are not AI.

and

The original argument is not true because we are not AI.

surreptitious57
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Re: Could a Robot be Conscious?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun May 13, 2018 9:43 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
I do not know why it is necessary for the universe to be aware why cannot it just exist without awareness
But awareness does exist without knowing ... the knower is the phantom created by the brain as not knowing awareness becomes aware of itself as other via the imaged imprint it projects outside of itself ... as I ve pointed out before during deep dreamless sleep awareness is unaware but then it can and does come back online via the mind aka the knowing aspect the mind being an aspect of awareness the conscious side as opposed to unconscious side ... so without awareness constantly present there would be no knowledge of anything at all. Knowledge is an appearance
of awareness impossible to separate the knower from the known ... both exist in the same moment they are one within each other
As a logical mind I cannot accept the existence of awareness as like anything else without evidence
I do find the notion very interesting but it is too metaphysical for me to just accept unconditionally
I accept that existence is eternal and in a constant state of motion but nothing beyond that though

jayjacobus
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Re: Could a Robot be Conscious?

Post by jayjacobus » Mon May 14, 2018 4:18 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:43 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
I do not know why it is necessary for the universe to be aware why cannot it just exist without awareness
But awareness does exist without knowing ... the knower is the phantom created by the brain as not knowing awareness becomes aware of itself as other via the imaged imprint it projects outside of itself ... as I ve pointed out before during deep dreamless sleep awareness is unaware but then it can and does come back online via the mind aka the knowing aspect the mind being an aspect of awareness the conscious side as opposed to unconscious side ... so without awareness constantly present there would be no knowledge of anything at all. Knowledge is an appearance
of awareness impossible to separate the knower from the known ... both exist in the same moment they are one within each other
As a logical mind I cannot accept the existence of awareness as like anything else without evidence
I do find the notion very interesting but it is too metaphysical for me to just accept unconditionally
I accept that existence is eternal and in a constant state of motion but nothing beyond that though
People are usually logical but they are also arbitrary. Robots cannot be arbitrary.

(arbitrary in the sense of subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion)

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QuantumT
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Re: Could a Robot be Conscious?

Post by QuantumT » Mon May 14, 2018 11:30 pm

This is my 100th post. Yay!! :mrgreen:

Qualia is unprovable. So we cannot deny AI's to have it, if they have processing, wich they do. Who are we to know what they might experience?

Dalek Prime
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Re: Could a Robot be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue May 15, 2018 8:13 am

QuantumT wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:30 pm
This is my 100th post. Yay!! :mrgreen:

Qualia is unprovable. So we cannot deny AI's to have it, if they have processing, wich they do. Who are we to know what they might experience?
I can go to a toy store and purchase a duck toy. It can quack, walk and swim just like a duck. In fact, it can fool a duckling into accepting it as a parental duck and follow it. And from a distance, one might not even notice that it's just a toy duck. But it doesn't feel the water it's in, even if it has sensors to tell it's processor it's in water, and what temperature that water is. It may recognize the duckling as a specific object. But it doesn't love that object, even if you program love into it by definition, and to build on that definition. There is no awareness for it. It doesn't begin to wonder how it came to be, its place in the universe, and fear it's demise. The question may as well be, can a rock be conscious.

I'd write more, but I was bored and sleepless, and should try to rest again.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Could a Robot be Conscious?

Post by Dontaskme » Tue May 15, 2018 8:46 am

Dalek Prime wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:13 am
QuantumT wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:30 pm
This is my 100th post. Yay!! :mrgreen:

Qualia is unprovable. So we cannot deny AI's to have it, if they have processing, wich they do. Who are we to know what they might experience?
I can go to a toy store and purchase a duck toy. It can quack, walk and swim just like a duck. In fact, it can fool a duckling into accepting it as a parental duck and follow it. And from a distance, one might not even notice that it's just a toy duck. But it doesn't feel the water it's in, even if it has sensors to tell it's processor it's in water, and what temperature that water is. It may recognize the duckling as a specific object. But it doesn't love that object, even if you program love into it by definition, and to build on that definition. There is no awareness for it. It doesn't begin to wonder how it came to be, its place in the universe, and fear it's demise. The question may as well be, can a rock be conscious.

I'd write more, but I was bored and sleepless, and should try to rest again.
Rest assured no thing is conscious... sweet dreams.

.

Dalek Prime
Posts: 4922
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:48 am
Location: Living in a tree with Polly.

Re: Could a Robot be Conscious?

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue May 15, 2018 8:55 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:46 am
Dalek Prime wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:13 am
QuantumT wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:30 pm
This is my 100th post. Yay!! :mrgreen:

Qualia is unprovable. So we cannot deny AI's to have it, if they have processing, wich they do. Who are we to know what they might experience?
I can go to a toy store and purchase a duck toy. It can quack, walk and swim just like a duck. In fact, it can fool a duckling into accepting it as a parental duck and follow it. And from a distance, one might not even notice that it's just a toy duck. But it doesn't feel the water it's in, even if it has sensors to tell it's processor it's in water, and what temperature that water is. It may recognize the duckling as a specific object. But it doesn't love that object, even if you program love into it by definition, and to build on that definition. There is no awareness for it. It doesn't begin to wonder how it came to be, its place in the universe, and fear it's demise. The question may as well be, can a rock be conscious.

I'd write more, but I was bored and sleepless, and should try to rest again.
Rest assured no thing is conscious... sweet dreams.

.
That's actually quite witty, Dontaskme lol.

jayjacobus
Posts: 888
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Re: Could a Robot be Conscious?

Post by jayjacobus » Tue May 15, 2018 2:54 pm

There are two basic reasons a person takes action. He is prompted to take action or he chooses to take action. In the first he is drawn to take action and in the second he is driven to take action. A doorbell ringing, the sun setting, the temperature changing or the smell of smoke are prompts that draw a person to take action. Going to the store, writing a letter or brushing his teeth are actions that are driven. Driven action comes from within. Drawn actions come from an external prompt.

For an animal It is nearly impossible to tell whether a driven action is programmed into the animal’s physical system or the action is consciously induced. A bee, for example, flies to flowers but does it do so biometrically or does it consciously choose to fly to the flower? With a robot, the question is not so difficult. The robot’s circuitry drives the robot. And because it does, consciousness is not used by the robot. Moreover to change the robot would require not only consciousness but a significant change in processing.

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