Forever Now

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Dontaskme
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Re: Forever Now

Post by Dontaskme »

jayjacobus wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:10 pm Marks ends his article with "This is the only now there is.”

That could be true but the only now is ever changing.

Or one might say,

"There are a sequence of nows that come from one temporal point and the sequence is mainly in the past."

In other words the past is actually a series of prior nows.
By prior nows do you mean memories?

But surely the mechanism that is used for recollection of memory doesn't move, it has to be a constant ever presence.

You say..''That could be true but the only now is ever changing...'' .........yes but that ever changing now never stops being now does it? ....it might be changing, but that changing never stops, when does now ever stop changing?

Can you stop the changing now? do you start the now? where does one now start and another now end?

The past being a memory means it doesn't exist now, and the future being a projection means it doesn't exist now....in fact we can't move to the future, the future comes to us, same goes for the past, we can't move to the past, the past comes to us.

How can we step outside of awareness ? the two polarities of past and future exist inside of you. It is only your mind that moves not you.


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jayjacobus
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Re: Forever Now

Post by jayjacobus »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:35 am

By prior nows do you mean memories?
Memories are not prior nows. Memories are in the current now. Prior nows are in the past. Memories are like the wake of the ship. The wake of the ship leads to the ship but are created by a past state of the ship. Is that confusing?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Forever Now

Post by Dontaskme »

jayjacobus wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:16 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:35 am

By prior nows do you mean memories?
Memories are not prior nows. Memories are in the current now. Prior nows are in the past. Memories are like the wake of the ship. The wake of the ship leads to the ship but are created by a past state of the ship. Is that confusing?
No, it's not confusing.

Memories are now.

So there can only be now..right?

The now is only created because of the past? ..right?

The now could not be known without relating it to that which is no longer now?

That's basically how I'm reading your analogy.

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jayjacobus
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Re: Forever Now

Post by jayjacobus »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:35 am You say..''That could be true but the only now is ever changing...'' .........yes but that ever changing now never stops being now does it? ....it might be changing, but that changing never stops, when does now ever stop changing?

The past being a memory means it doesn't exist now, and the future being a projection means it doesn't exist now....in fact we can't move to the future, the future comes to us, same goes for the past, we can't move to the past, the past comes to us.

If there are two types of time (there are), you are switching between the two types. Seeing that your paragraph one is incompatible with your paragraph two, may lead you to my conclusion that here are two types of time, one before movement and one after. The one before is ever changing. The one after is moving from past to present to future. I've changed nothing other than the wording.
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Re: Forever Now

Post by jayjacobus »

It seems to me that the butterfly is flapping its wings which move it forward. Saying that the future causes the wings to flap and the butterfly to move defies explanation and is simply a yarn.
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Re: Forever Now

Post by Dontaskme »

jayjacobus wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:51 am It seems to me that the butterfly is flapping its wings which move it forward. Saying that the future causes the wings to flap and the butterfly to move defies explanation and is simply a yarn.
When I said that the future comes to us, I meant the future cannot happen, it's only a projection happening here now. The future never actually comes, so it doesn't actually exist, and the past is only a memory now so that doesn't actually exist either. What does that leave?

You are infinity, infinity cannot happen? ..is this confusing ?

You are infinity - you are infinity experiencing itself infinitely...there was never any beginning or ending to you.

The you that you were as a fetus is the same you that is a baby, and is the same you that is the child, the teenager, the adult, the old person...it's all the same you observing changes. You are the changeless observer of change.

That which changes cannot observe anything because it doesn't exist outside of that which is observing the change.

The space that you are moving in is also you...it's not separate from you.

Notice the space doesn't move, only the object moves, and the object is inseparable from the space it's appearing in.

They are one and the same no thing....no object, no space, no space no object.

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We're not talking about the events here, we're talking about the witness of events...descriptions are not the prescription.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Forever Now

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Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:24 am
The you that you were as a fetus is the same you that is a baby, and is the same you that is the child, the teenager, the adult, the old person...it's all the same you observing changes. You are the changeless observer of change.
The you that is an egg and sperm is the same you that is your mother and father...and is the same you that is your grandmother and father...add infinitum....

There is no break in you.

That's what the eternal now means.

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There is no was..there is only is.

There is no to become because you already are.

IS-NESS.

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jayjacobus
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Re: Forever Now

Post by jayjacobus »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:21 am
So there can only be now..right?

The now is only created because of the past? ..right?

The now could not be known without relating it to that which is no longer now?

That's basically how I'm reading your analogy.

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The function that creates now is always in the present so it is not created because of the past. But the past leads to the present similarly to the wake leads to the ship. Thinking of the past, present and future is thinking of a series but the series emerges from the function that produces time. Putting the function that creates time in the present is the proper way to think of it. But the function had a past - had not has.

Relating now to the past gives context to the present. The brain created the mental past. There is no physical past, only remnants of the past in records, history, geology, dna and Memories.

Space time is a frame of reference and although it is sometimes thought to be physical there is no evidence of that and I think it is from someone's imagination.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Forever Now

Post by Dontaskme »

jayjacobus wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:21 pm
Space time is a frame of reference and although it is sometimes thought to be physical there is no evidence of that and I think it is from someone's imagination.

Bertrand Russel (Russell's Paradox) as somebody who pointed out the ultimate logical absurdity that arises from self-reference. (the concept of self)


In the absence of the 'concept', there are just sensations - fleeting, ever changing.

Conception is timeless. It does not exist in time, time is a concept within it. It has no beginning or end. It does not Change. Conception includes (it is) all meaning... all that can ever be known. It has no substance, no form.

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Re: Forever Now

Post by jayjacobus »

I think that it is incredibly hard to change people’s minds. Even if you have a thought process that you think cannot be denied, people will deny it. A statement that seems obviously true to you will not necessarily be true to other people and they will stick with their thinking.

It’s probably the case that you will stick to your thinking and even if I submit a logical argument, you will not grant me approval. Yet I want approval (or at least positive recognition) so I will continue to refine my argument in the hopes that my argument will register as valid (up to a point).

But I don’t know what argument I can make for you. You disagree with my conclusions so you won’t consider my arguments. I am wasting my time.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Forever Now

Post by Dontaskme »

jayjacobus wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:10 pm I think that it is incredibly hard to change people’s minds. Even if you have a thought process that you think cannot be denied, people will deny it. A statement that seems obviously true to you will not necessarily be true to other people and they will stick with their thinking.

It’s probably the case that you will stick to your thinking and even if I submit a logical argument, you will not grant me approval. Yet I want approval (or at least positive recognition) so I will continue to refine my argument in the hopes that my argument will register as valid (up to a point).

But I don’t know what argument I can make for you. You disagree with my conclusions so you won’t consider my arguments. I am wasting my time.
I'm never going to agree with any knowledge that pertains to a separate knower, ...so as long as there is the belief in a separate knower, then I'm going to instantly reject that assumed claimed knowledge.

I can only accept knowledge that comes from the very core central heart of knowing that is within my own presence that is my experience. So as far as my logic is concerned, if every one else did the same self inquiry ... they would also see through the separate self separation phenomena...but I also know that people really want to believe that knowledge is copyrighted, whereas I do not and never will believe knowledge is personally copyrighted. To me knowledge is all story telling, arising as a fiction, simply because words are the only thing that have created the world of things.
Before the words, there were no things...not a thing. Just this simply unclaimed unborn IS-NESS presence.

The problem I have is that I know there is no separate self, and that the idea there is a separate self is but an artificial construction of thought which is triggered by sensation. All sensation is fleeting and ever changing..so this assumed self is changing moment to moment, there is no concrete or solid permanent 'self' existing anywhere whatsoever.

I also know that what appears to be a separate self ...is born and then lives a brief spell, and then dies...so how can that which appears and disappears be a ''real self''...?

There never was/is a separate self....there's just everything and nothing, here now nowhere.

In other words, there's just infinity expressing itself infinitely...there is no known beginning, nor will there be any known ending...all that is known is fiction arising as infinity itself.

This is so BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS RIGHT HERE AND NOW.. and yet no one seems to want to believe it.

Of course this is not going to go down too well with the separate self believers...they are never going to give up the idea that they do not exist, it must be quite frightening to find out that what you ONCE thought to exist turns out it never actually did.

For me, this has been a wonderful discovery, I knew I did not exist almost in the exact same moment the thought I did exist happened...I remember the exact moment like it was yesterday, if I existed, then I must also not exist...this logic came to me in a flash of insight...and I have no idea why it happened to me at such a young age...but that instant realisation hit home to me when I was about 6 years old. It's been an amazing discovery for me, for the one I think myself to be is not only finite...but is infinity itself.

So to me, there was an instant recognition that each time we die, it's just the end of one of infinities experiences, it's not the end, but a new beginning of a different experience...in that all endings are beginnings and beginnings are endings...all the same one ocean waving to itself, in an infinite seamless sea of possibility and pure potential...

This is my vision, and nothing will ever change that vision, not in this life time anyway. I'm not saying it is absolute truth and that people should accept it...you are all free to believe what you want..you are freedom expressing itself in every free moment. There is no other force or agent in the world that can change your own vision the way you see it as a part of this infinity expressing itself in infinite ways.

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jayjacobus
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Re: Forever Now

Post by jayjacobus »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:06 am
This is my vision, and nothing will ever change that vision, not in this life time anyway. I'm not saying it is absolute truth and that people should accept it...you are all free to believe what you want..you are freedom expressing itself in every free moment. There is no other force or agent in the world that can change your own vision the way you see it as a part of this infinity expressing itself in infinite ways.

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Your arguments are based on a conclusion. If someone does not accept your conclusion, they won't accept your arguments.
jayjacobus
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Re: Forever Now

Post by jayjacobus »

People may wonder why I post but I think I am being clear.

Get off your philosophical asses and DO SOMETHING!
jayjacobus
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Re: Forever Now

Post by jayjacobus »

A corporation can harm you, even to the tune of $1,000,000.

But if you try to harm them by burning their down their building, say.

You will go to jail.

Am I making my point, dick?
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A_Seagull
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Re: Forever Now

Post by A_Seagull »

Philosophy Now wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:30 am by Joel Marks

https://philosophynow.org/issues/41/Forever_Now
Marks begins with "My mind has been blown. ".

Perhaps a visit to a psychiatrist might be opportune. I am not skilled in such matters and have no wish to try to unravel the debris of a blown mind.
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