Philosophy Now Forum

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:09 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:28 pm _______

Humans, through the tools of science,...

(and assuming we will not destroy ourselves in the interim)

...will simply keep trudging along until we have figured out how to “indirectly” manipulate the fabric of matter in the same way that we can “directly” manipulate the fabric of our own minds.

“Tea, Earl Grey, hot”...



Oh dang, a malfunction.

As I stated in an alternate thread:

seeds wrote: I believe that as we continue to advance our understanding of the quantum realm, we will eventually be able to control electrons in three-dimensions as easily as the wizards at Pixar or DreamWorks control them now in two-dimensions.

And that will no doubt be an endless endeavor for science (not to mention the questions that arise as to why reality lends itself to such control).
_______

Okay Captain Picard.

PhilX

No need to be so formal, just call me Jean-Luc.

You can have the helm, I'll be in my ready room finishing off my “tea.”
_______

Science may or may not end in the sense described in the article, what will probably happen however is scientific theories and data will cease to have weight in moral discussion. As Hume said "no is implies an ought". The habit of explaining that this or that point of biology should in one way or another inform our view of homosexuality for example will likely give out.

One point I have not thought of is the moral status of a culture. Considering many scientific discoveries are being made in a time where the average person does not trust their neighbor, the animosity between scientists will cause many problems. There is no ethical system within the scientific community other than "don't get caught fudging numbers" or "don't get caught censoring research".

Considering the very act of observation not only affect reality, but the metaphysics as to what determines reality, sciences inability to self-reflect will eventually cause it to slow down.

There will be a time in history where the generations will look back and say "look at what those scientists have done, look at the world they created. What do they know with their superstitious ritual?" It will be no different than how we look at the religions of the middle ages... with nothing but contempt and self-exaltion.

To me, it seems the end of the Large Hadron Collider will be the end of Quantum Physics as we know it.

Viveka wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:48 pm To me, it seems the end of the Large Hadron Collider will be the end of Quantum Physics as we know it.

By the end, do you mean replaced by another collider?

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:53 pm

Viveka wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:48 pm To me, it seems the end of the Large Hadron Collider will be the end of Quantum Physics as we know it.

By the end, do you mean replaced by another collider?

PhilX

I heard Stephen Hawking argue that the collider needed for proving M-Theory would have to be equivalent to the milky-way. That and one potential meaning for M in M-Theory was "magic".

Pride goes before the fall.

The problem is not "science" it is the current "priest-class" that the scientific community has become. Their arrogance will be their downfall.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:33 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:53 pm

Viveka wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:48 pm To me, it seems the end of the Large Hadron Collider will be the end of Quantum Physics as we know it.

By the end, do you mean replaced by another collider?

PhilX

I heard Stephen Hawking argue that the collider needed for proving M-Theory would have to be equivalent to the milky-way. That and one potential meaning for M in M-Theory was "magic".

Pride goes before the fall.

The problem is not "science" it is the current "priest-class" that the scientific community has become. Their arrogance will be their downfall.

Agreed.

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:53 pm

Viveka wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:48 pm To me, it seems the end of the Large Hadron Collider will be the end of Quantum Physics as we know it.

By the end, do you mean replaced by another collider?

PhilX

I don't think we can make another collider that will make much difference.

Viveka wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:46 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:33 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:53 pm

By the end, do you mean replaced by another collider?

PhilX

I heard Stephen Hawking argue that the collider needed for proving M-Theory would have to be equivalent to the milky-way. That and one potential meaning for M in M-Theory was "magic".

Pride goes before the fall.

The problem is not "science" it is the current "priest-class" that the scientific community has become. Their arrogance will be their downfall.

Agreed.

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:53 pm

Viveka wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:48 pm To me, it seems the end of the Large Hadron Collider will be the end of Quantum Physics as we know it.

By the end, do you mean replaced by another collider?

PhilX

I don't think we can make another collider that will make much difference.

They will keep having to make bigger and bigger colliders in the form of a "circle" until they realize that the physical universe is the only "real" collider.

At the end of the day modern science wants to "enframe" the universe, not understand it. It is strictly a power play based on ignorance. It is like the middle ages except where man "reached out" of himself in search of God by exclaiming a higher power modern man uses metal tables as altar's of sacrifice towards his own ego.

They say the sacrificial system is dead but both systems modern and old:

1) Still practice ritual: Ancient in forms of mediation and prayer, Modern in the form of the scientific method.

2) Both practiced animal sacrifice in attempts to gain knowledge and alleviate suffering.

3) Both build idols as extension of the natural world: Ancient in the form of "statues", Modern in the form of Social media technology. Both are rooted in stone and metal.

4) Both are systems of measurement with which to understand the nature of the world.

5) Both pray and contemplate towards altars: Ancient with a table of metal and stone, Modern with a table of metal and stone as "social media" technology.

6) Both seek to control the natural world: Ancient within the will of [the] God[s], Modern within the will of Man as God.

7) Both have hierarchies rarely question.

Both are systems of belief as their is no "full evidence" that either system entirely "works". This is considering that both contain as foundations the "axiom" as self-evidence. In this respect both are extensions of man's will. The ancients sought to work with or appease [the] God[s], the moderns seek to overcome [the] God[s].

9) The ancient's viewed everything as a Mystery. The Modern view everything as a Problem.

10) The ancient's valued circular reasoning as a form of self-reflection through which we are not only better able to understand ourselves and the world around us but maintain a median with it. The modern's value linear reason as a form of continual self-projection without self reflection. In this respect they divided both themselves and the environment around them as the "line" exists as a form of "deficiency" or "subtraction/division".

And I can go further, but I have come to learn people hate long posts.

Science will definitely end.

The Christian monk revolution of 2089 will line up all scientists against the walls and shoot them into a heap.

All books which have the expression printed or written "evolution of species" will be burnt. It will be punished by capital punishment of the most cruel kind -- being burnt at the stakes -- for the crime of uttering "evolution".

All hospitals and universities will be shut down, except, of course, schools of theology.

Hospitals will only allowed to operate which can prove they use no anaesthetics, no clean surgical equipment, and will replace these instruments of healing with the power of prayer.

Young people, and kids, will be sent to schools where they are beaten constantly, and they have to memorize the words of the bible. If they make just one mistake in the recitation of the scriptures, they will be severely punished -- like by water-boarding, or getting painful electric shocks.

People will be forced to give up sex for pleasure, and onanization will be punished by breaking all the bones of the sinner in a public forum. If a couple is found to be having sex or expressions of love for each other for purposes other than procreation, will be excommunicated, ground up alive in millstones, and their remains scattered over Jewish cemeteries.

Money-lending, enterprise, and trading for a profit will be prohibited.

If someone is going to want to have some fun on their day off, or on Friday nights, they can go to Vespers, or spend the day in quiet meditation and prayer how good it is to live in a world now without the mind-poison of scientific research, personal liberty, and joy of life.

-1- wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:33 pm Science will definitely end.

The Christian monk revolution of 2089 will line up all scientists against the walls and shoot them into a heap.

All books which have the expression printed or written "evolution of species" will be burnt. It will be punished by capital punishment of the most cruel kind -- being burnt at the stakes -- for the crime of uttering "evolution".

All hospitals and universities will be shut down, except, of course, schools of theology.

Hospitals will only allowed to operate which can prove they use no anaesthetics, no clean surgical equipment, and will replace these instruments of healing with the power of prayer.

Young people, and kids, will be sent to schools where they are beaten constantly, and they have to memorize the words of the bible. If they make just one mistake in the recitation of the scriptures, they will be severely punished -- like by water-boarding, or getting painful electric shocks.

People will be forced to give up sex for pleasure, and onanization will be punished by breaking all the bones of the sinner in a public forum. If a couple is found to be having sex or expressions of love for each other for purposes other than procreation, will be excommunicated, ground up alive in millstones, and their remains scattered over Jewish cemeteries.

Money-lending, enterprise, and trading for a profit will be prohibited.

If someone is going to want to have some fun on their day off, or on Friday nights, they can go to Vespers, or spend the day in quiet meditation and prayer how good it is to live in a world now without the mind-poison of scientific research, personal liberty, and joy of life.

Excuse my language but "what the h*ll are you talking about?"

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:15 pm
Excuse my language but "what the h*ll are you talking about?"

JohnDoe7, you over-intelligent brainiac, which part of "end of science" do you not understand?

-1- wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:13 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:15 pm
Excuse my language but "what the h*ll are you talking about?"

JohnDoe7, you over-intelligent brainiac, which part of "end of science" do you not understand?

I think therefore I do not understand . Seriously...though the 2089 thing? At least elaborate that part for me.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:24 pm I think therefore I do not understand . Seriously...though the 2089 thing? At least elaborate that part for me.

Science has not ended yet... obviously. Although that has been way overdue. So it's going to happen in the future, yes? So... I picked a date in the future. Much like Orwell picked 1984 in 1948. Orwell transposed the digits... I did not. I just picked a future date.

This is as much as I am willing to explain. The rest is so trivial and easy to understand that it's self-explanatory.

Is Science Going To End?

Yes. Either when there is not longer a sentient being capable of rational thought where it comes to what is not known, or when the sentient being comes to know everything.

-1- wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:03 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:24 pm I think therefore I do not understand . Seriously...though the 2089 thing? At least elaborate that part for me.

Science has not ended yet... obviously. Although that has been way overdue. So it's going to happen in the future, yes? So... I picked a date in the future. Much like Orwell picked 1984 in 1948. Orwell transposed the digits... I did not. I just picked a future date.

This is as much as I am willing to explain. The rest is so trivial and easy to understand that it's self-explanatory.

That answers the question. Science is strictly an observation of the material world, just as Religion observes the spiritual, and Philosophy the intellectual.

None the these current systems of "reasoning" work on their own terms hence the continual "counter-balancing" observed throughout history where a people place more emphasis on one over the other.

Science, in the western world, is causing this form of assymetry at this current point in history. It is not strictly to blame but it is a culprit. In regards to it "ending"....it's end will be through a necessary synthesis yet in many respects it will and should continue to exist.

It has become a religion when in reality it's emphasis is on the transitory. This gives evidence to the continual flux of moral values we observe today that are organizing into a maelstrom of chaos, modern science is not science...it is strictly a system of belief and dogma called "theory".