Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Discussion of articles that appear in the magazine.

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Necromancer
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by Necromancer »

Is this crazy? Scientific experiment for proving souls:
Let's take the example of the soul and let's "imagine" a way to prove it.

We have two sizeable pools for two people to voluntary drown themselves in, forcing the souls, 2, to separate from the 2 bodies.

Let's "imagine" further that the 2 souls are so friendly and gentle to one another that they are able to follow one another in the forms of 2 souls, human-sized, I guess.

Then some "diverse" interaction between these 2 souls. Then, from this "out-of-body" state the 2 souls decide to retrieve their bodies by "flying" to these 2 bodies lying there lifeless in the 2 pools and "retake up" their respective bodies.

Then, we at the outside of the situation, the friends to these 2 bodies with souls in them, these 2 people, may note they begin to wake in the pools and help them out of the pools.

Later, these 2 people go through (f)MRI scans to confirm the new mental content that also light up "reality" mark in these 2 heads/brains.

I suggest, by the above, that we "now" (by our current imagination here at the blog, Whatiswritten777, reading) have proven the existence of soul/souls, interacting and more.

Proof by inter-subjective/objective facts in 2 people and by clinical death state in these 2 people while "soul-walking". Also, the new (f)MRI scans support our findings.

Good?
Some technical details, suggestions:
Time: 20 minutes to "drown" and 20 minutes of "flying time/soul time". Oxygenated pools and possibly (lightly) chlorinated. Water temperature: 22 degrees Celsius.
Pools, 4x4 meters each, in order to hold sufficient oxygen/air.
Source: https://whatiswritten777.blogspot.com/2 ... le-at.html - Seeking to Prove the Souls of People
tbieter
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by tbieter »

tbieter wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:06 am Regarding the following article,
http://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopi ... 24#p322482 ,

this text from the U.S. Supreme Court reflects the current prevailing secular Weltanschauung:

“Our precedents "have respected the private realm of family life which the state cannot enter." Prince v. Massachusetts, 321 U.S. 158, 166 (1944). These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life. Beliefs about these matters could not define the attributes of personhood were they formed under compulsion of the State.” [505 U.S. 833, 852] Planned Parenthood of Southeastern PA v. Casey, 505 US 883 (1992)

I suggest that the Court’s language implies the following secular worldview:

My consciousness is autonomous, unlimited, and sovereign. It defines things. It determines beliefs and doctrines. It determines the truth.

Thus, Rachel Dolezal, born of two white parents, persistently asserts that she is an African American. In the short video below the psychiatrist calls her delusional. He asserts that she denies reality. If you listen carefully, you will see that he expresses the secular worldview described above.


Rachel Dolezal
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/02/26/ra ... eless.html
This is even more relevant today 😀
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RCSaunders
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by RCSaunders »

Philosophy Now wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:20 pm by Philip Goff

https://philosophynow.org/issues/121/Ca ... sciousness
The search for an explanation assumes there is some identifiable mystery that needs to be explained. If there is consciousness, there is consciousness, if not there isn't. So say consciousness needs an explanation assume there is consciousness. What does not exist does not need to be explained.

If consciousness exists, what's the problem. Well there isn't one until someone makes an assumption about it, like, there is only the physical and consciousness cannot be physical, so how is there consciousness. But that assumption is totally unwarranted. There is consciousness (else there's no problem). It's a fact of existence, just like all physical things and properties. Obviously there exists a property of existence that is not physical, perfectly natural ontological property, just like the physical ones, but in addition to the physical properties.

Those who insist that the only properties there can be are the physical ones are just voicing an irrational prejudice for the world to be the way they would like it to be, but reality is what it is and refuses to conform to anyone's pet views of it.

Either there is life, consciousness, and human minds which are real natural attributes of physical entities (organisms) or there aren't. To say there aren't is a denial of obvious evidence. It is not science, and it is not reason. It is superstition as mystical as any religion.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by RCSaunders »

jayjacobus wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:26 pm Scientists may discover the circuits that surround consciousness and declare EUREKA! but until they can create artificial consciousness (not just a mimic) they won't understand consciousness. Consciousness is an issue without a likely solution.

Already scientists claim that a computer can see. If computers are not aware, they can't see. They process and interpret data from light waves. This is not seeing.
When a computer feels pain it will be conscious. Until then it's just a machine following orders.

You are right. A computer cannot see. I've worked with cutting edge signal analysis processing data from optical sensors, but that's all a computer can do. It cannot, "see," any more than a pair of binoculars or television camera can see.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Robert Paster wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:37 pm Here are the two sentences in this article which create the flaw in the author's argument: "It's hard to see how these sensory qualities could be captured in the abstract, austere vocabulary of mathematics. How could an equation capture the taste of spicy paprika?"

Stated baldly, the taste of spicy paprika is a single number!

To understand this, learn about p-adic mathematics, which is the only completion of the rational numbers besides real numbers. P-adic mathematics is the natural mathematics of cognition.

P-adic numbers record specific paths within an information hierarchy tree. But p-adic numbers operate in a vast informational space (this is because to close the p-adic completion of the rational numbers is much more elaborate than real numbers' very simple closure as complex numbers), so as a result each p-adic number represents a vast hierarchy of interconnected paths.

The p-adic norm (how p-adic numbers are measured) measures information. So the brain continually identifies p-adic paths that maximize information content.

This is explained in more detail at www.digitalmindmath.com/Math.html

Digital Mind Math is the detailed development of the cognitive aspect of the theory of particle physics, cosmology, biophysics, and cognition called Topological Geometrodynamics www.tgdtheory.fi
One must then quantify quantification but this paradoxically leads to an infinite regression and an infinite regression of said infinite regressions thus leading us to a state of indefiniteness.
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bahman
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by bahman »

Philosophy Now wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:20 pm by Philip Goff

https://philosophynow.org/issues/121/Ca ... sciousness
Science can tell us about the functioning of the brain but it cannot tell us about consciousness since consciousness does not arise from the functioning of the brain and instead is the ability of the mind, consciousness is the ability to experience. The brain creates qualia that is the result of functioning the brain. Mind perceives the qualia and experiences it.
trokanmariel
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by trokanmariel »

Sociology (science) is a force which has the ability to have physics be inspired by sociology, to the extent of physics following sociology around; to compound the magnificence, of this state, sociology is able to access its extension trope (the moral therapy, between sociology not dealing in alliances and the mystery, of whether emotion belongs to the left or the right); there is a consequence, however -

Theology, of the internal framework that all human movements are alliances, and the all human movements are alliances machine being unable to be an imaginary metaphor ally of written text inadequacy, has created an invitation to sociology to use the pendulum system.

Sunlight, perhaps created by the Right-wing Master (incidentally, who is able to dismiss the theology creation, of ideas are becoming clones through people, except Wallace, from Wallace & Gromit), and of the internal intelligence that sunlight and OCD don't need to recognise each other, is free through the symmetry of sociology and sunlight both being controllers to wait, for theology to be the humour, of having to continue from its soul matter creation of the theology pendulum.

Why do I publish this:
because of the revelation, shared between myself and sunlight, that outer space being a physical possession in people's minds for people to use freely is the resolution, as no irony, to theology's own inability to dismantle the link between all human movements and the concept of alliance
Phil8659
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by Phil8659 »

Really? Not grammar, but a science which employs grammar. So, that which explains is now the verb, and science the noun?
Really.
Common guys, where did you hide the really real Philosophy forum? Huh?

Damn, I thought science just denoted areas of study, while our Grammar Matrix is over all human behavior. What the fuck was I thinking. Hey, someone wake up Plato, he has to white out a good portion of his Dialogs before they go to misprint.

Hey Boss?
Yea?
Don't forget all them weirdo's over in the Bronx, tell them, they got's to do complete rewrite that Bible of theirs. Don't wanna get in the cross-fire of the union boys.
Yea, yea, get it done. I ain't fuken with no union.
Boss?
What now?
Don't your cousin work on something called a com pu tater?
Yea, yea, something like that.
Well might want to mention to him, he has to try and reverse engineer it, into something useful.
Yea, I guess your right, If I think about it, I'll let him know.
Advocate
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by Advocate »

Science must first define consciousness.
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Sculptor
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Re: Can Science Explain Consciousness?

Post by Sculptor »

Science is not about explanation. It is about description.

For example science can describe in great detail how gravity works; that objects are attracted to one another, and that gravity can be described in waves, bending space.

But nothing can explain why gravity is this way. It just happens to be true that the nature of matter in space is to exert a force by which matter comes together. Science calls that phenomenon gravity.

We then kid ourselves that this description "explains" why apples fall off trees.

Science describes what material and energetic components are required for the emergence of consciousness, and can describe how consciousness works. But nothing can explain why cerebral matter leads to the rise in such a phenomenon.
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