Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Discussion of articles that appear in the magazine.

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madera23
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by madera23 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:05 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Impenitent wrote:it gives us a circle of definitions, nothing more...
Not really, as it also gives us the truth conditions for the possible empirical propositions.
... empirical evidences of singular instances are erroneously attributed to all (universal/similar) instances including un-sensed future instances... it's just how we think...
Well, if we are saying that induction is necessarily true then I agree that this is a false assumption but within Logic structured induction and recursion is a necessarily true prove procedure, or at least I think so.

Anyhoo, I'm slightly lost as to whether you think there is other knowledge other than the scientific form? And whether logical knowledge is such a one?
There are two knowledges.
one intellictual and one spiritual from the Holy Spirit.
"Be still and know".

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HexHammer
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by HexHammer » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:22 am

© Prof. Massimo Pigliucci 2014
LOL?
This article from an allerged proffessor, reminds me of an medival view of "science". In these modern times it's something I would expect from a child.

If he really knew what was going on, he would divide it into wisdom (condensed knowledge), and intellect.

Further add congitive abilities to precieve what's going on, the relevance and put things into context which 99.99..99 of all people fail utterly in.

What people are soso at, is making parrotspeeches, not thinking ..why highly intellligent people call people "sheep".

Sappho de Miranda
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by Sappho de Miranda » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:06 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Impenitent wrote:One might argue that "Knowing" is more than agreement on definition...

-Imp
As the article says, it depends upon what we mean by "knowing". :)

In the case of Logic I was just wondering how it was an empirical exercise if we had no need of experimentally proving that each proposition has the property in question since the definition is the proof that it does?
That which is logically possible is not by necessity probable in reality. But logic does provide a good source for the development of hypotheses needing empirical research. Perhaps that is what is meant.

Not sure though as I'm struggling to understand how and when rational thought became empirical science.

madera23
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by madera23 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:39 pm

Knowing means nothing if the person does not change In stature, including a complete change emotionaly and spiritualy and a mind free of stress and all anxiety,., all other ways of knowing are deceptive.,
ps
And morally.

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HexHammer
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by HexHammer » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:02 pm

Sappho de Miranda wrote:That which is logically possible is not by necessity probable in reality. But logic does provide a good source for the development of hypotheses needing empirical research. Perhaps that is what is meant.

Not sure though as I'm struggling to understand how and when rational thought became empirical science.
Very fancy words, but do you have any examples?

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HexHammer
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by HexHammer » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:03 pm

madera23 wrote:Knowing means nothing if the person does not change In stature, including a complete change emotionaly and spiritualy and a mind free of stress and all anxiety,., all other ways of knowing are deceptive.,
ps
And morally.
So we must change each time we read something new? ..that's nonsens!

madera
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by madera » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:19 pm

HexHammer wrote:
madera23 wrote:Knowing means nothing if the person does not change In stature, including a complete change emotionaly and spiritualy and a mind free of stress and all anxiety,., all other ways of knowing are deceptive.,
ps
And morally.
So we must change each time we read something new? ..that's nonsens!

Who reads? That is the way the intellectuals learn.
When one is still, knowing flows.. The knower knows what we need, in HIs time, not ours.
"Be still and know that I am God, not you.". psalms
Christians just don't get it. They study words, but lack the Holy Spirit.

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HexHammer
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by HexHammer » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:32 pm

madera wrote:Who reads? That is the way the intellectuals learn.
When one is still, knowing flows.. The knower knows what we need, in HIs time, not ours.
"Be still and know that I am God, not you.". psalms
Christians just don't get it. They study words, but lack the Holy Spirit.
Very fancy words again, but how do you put things into irl context?

It seems that too many here on various philosophy fora only have theoretical knowledge about things, and at bests pure spekulative and and jumping to conclusions view on life.

What kind of job does one such as you have?

Sappho de Miranda
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by Sappho de Miranda » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:50 am

HexHammer wrote:
Sappho de Miranda wrote:That which is logically possible is not by necessity probable in reality. But logic does provide a good source for the development of hypotheses needing empirical research. Perhaps that is what is meant.

Not sure though as I'm struggling to understand how and when rational thought became empirical science.
Very fancy words, but do you have any examples?
Sure. Basically, if something is not logically impossible, then it is logically possible.

So for example, it is logically impossible for a square circle to exist. We cant even imagine what a square circle is. Not even in your dreams will you ever encounter a square circle. You could dream about the latest breakthrough of the square circle but when it comes to encountering it, your dreams will do everything it can to stop that square circle from being revealed to the point of waking you up because not even a dream will allow for logical impossibilities.

That means that everything which is not logically impossible, becomes logically possible and therefore, a one eyed, one horned, flying purple people eater is logically possible albeit highly improbable.

In fact, because our mind cannot imagine things which are logically impossible, it follows that everything we do imagine is logically possible. That people believe in supernatural beings (Fairies and Gods) existing beyond the natural world who cares about humans on earth, is again, logically possible albeit highly improbable.

So how is it that this information is advantageous for the creation of hypotheses? Well, our ability to refine our questions is enhanced. We don't have to test logical impossibilities. A great deal of the highly improbable can be removed too.

Further reading

madera23
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by madera23 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:44 am

HexHammer wrote:
madera wrote:Who reads? That is the way the intellectuals learn.
When one is still, knowing flows.. The knower knows what we need, in HIs time, not ours.
"Be still and know that I am God, not you.". psalms
Christians just don't get it. They study words, but lack the Holy Spirit.
Very fancy words again, but how do you put things into irl context?

It seems that too many here on various philosophy fora only have theoretical knowledge about things, and at bests pure spekulative and and jumping to conclusions view on life.

What kind of job does one such as you have?
I'm retired.

In don't use fancy words, I speak from experience. I dont know why you asked what kind of job IHave. Whats it got to do with this conversation?

I dont tue fancy wordd

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HexHammer
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by HexHammer » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:53 am

madera23 wrote:I'm retired.

In don't use fancy words, I speak from experience. I dont know why you asked what kind of job IHave. Whats it got to do with this conversation?

I dont tue fancy wordd
Let me ask once again:
how do you put things into irl context?
I ask people their job, because they usually have a very low wage job, those in higher wage job usually have a higher chance of being able to put their thinking into irl context. Those with low wage job can't, really simple.

Since you didn't state your job, it must have been a poor job.

madera
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by madera » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:45 pm

HexHammer wrote:
madera23 wrote:I'm retired.

In don't use fancy words, I speak from experience. I dont know why you asked what kind of job IHave. Whats it got to do with this conversation?

quote]Let me ask once again:
how do you put things into irl context?
I ask people their job, because they usually have a very low wage job, those in higher wage job usually have a higher chance of being able to put their thinking into irl context. Those with low wage job can't, really simple.

Since you didn't state your job, it must have been a poor job.

It doesn't matter how I put things into context, you will never understand.
You ask people about their jobs because you love to judge a book by it's cover and miss seeing the depth of their souls.

They say " you can't judge a book by it's cover", but, its really very simple. Have you ever self observed your nature?

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HexHammer
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by HexHammer » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:52 pm

madera wrote:It doesn't matter how I put things into context, you will never understand.
You ask people about their jobs because you love to judge a book by it's cover and miss seeing the depth of their souls.

They say " you can't judge a book by it's cover", but, its really very simple. Have you ever self observed your nature?
So, you havn't given a single answer to any of my very simple questions, that either because you really don't know the answer, and dispence fancy rethorics to feel selfimportaince, I understand that

I ask about your job, because what you have so far written in this thread doesn't make sense, and you can't put it into context, why you have to resort to a counter attack to divert attention, a desperate move from a feeble thinker.

I've been in the quality department of a newspaper, my whole reason to be there was because I understand things and how to put them into context. I was often asked to participate in big projects, investments, etc.

Besides, "It should be possible to explain the laws of physics to a barmaid." - Albert Einstein, if you can't explain your reasoning to me, it's more likely that you are a halpless parrot that doesn't understand your own words, lol!

madera
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by madera » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:04 pm

HexHammer wrote:
madera wrote:It doesn't matter how I put things into context, you will never understand.
You ask people about their jobs because you love to judge a book by it's cover and miss seeing the depth of their souls.

They say " you can't judge a book by it's cover", but, its really very simple. Have you ever self observed your nature?
So, you havn't given a single answer to any of my very simple questions, that either because you really don't know the answer, and dispence fancy rethorics to feel selfimportaince, I understand that

I ask about your job, because what you have so far written in this thread doesn't make sense, and you can't put it into context, why you have to resort to a counter attack to divert attention, a desperate move from a feeble thinker.

I've been in the quality department of a newspaper, my whole reason to be there was because I understand things and how to put them into context. I was often asked to participate in big projects, investments, etc.

Besides, "It should be possible to explain the laws of physics to a barmaid." - Albert Einstein, if you can't explain your reasoning to me, it's more likely that you are a halpless parrot that doesn't understand your own words, lol!
God Himself couldn't get through you so I won't waste my time either.

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HexHammer
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Re: Are There ‘Other’ Ways of Knowing?

Post by HexHammer » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:19 am

madera wrote:God Himself couldn't get through you so I won't waste my time either.
You havn't even tried ..ONCE!!! Stop your usual fancy rethorics!

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