What Is Guilt?

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Sculptor
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:39 am
Sculptor wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:56 pm Gulit in this sense is a legal term. A state of being imposed by the authorities, and not something felt.

All feelings of guilt are fake.

People do have feelings about events in which they think they might have made a mistake.
There are big problems with pinning a name on "feelings" for several reasons. THe main reason is that all feelings are subjective and rarely can a single word exhaust the meaning and quality of the emptional spectrum.
But in this particular case there is a serious problem with feelings of guilt and shame.
There are two ways one can sunder events which have led to error that have led to such feelings.
Either the event was done intentionally or the event has been done unintentionally.
If I acted intentionally then the right response to a mistake would not be guilt. The correct response wopuld be an acknowledgement that I was acting in the best possible way at the time, and that I shall learn from the event to act better next time. If I acted intentionally to cause harm then guilt is not the correct response. The correct resonse is to stand by my actions.

If the mistake happened without my intention then I have nothing to feel sorry for and so guilt is not the correct response, but any recompense I think valuable in the circumstances would be the next thing to do.

Guily is like regret. An empty and useless emotion and no use except as a teaching aid for children.
You need to update your knowledge on what is 'guilt'.

There was the earlier relevant post, i.e.
viewtopic.php?p=548858#p548858

and my post
  • viewtopic.php?p=549044#p549044
    All humans are "programmed" with a potential moral function [algorithm] which is at present has low activity in the majority.

    As a functional system, there is a control feedback to monitor progress towards the intended goals.
    This control feedback is the guilt emotion and impulse, i.e.
    WIKI wrote:Guilt is a moral emotion that occurs when a person believes or realizes—accurately or not—that they have compromised their own standards of conduct or have violated universal moral standards and bear significant responsibility for that violation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_(emotion)
    Note 'guilt' is recognized as a real human emotion, albeit a secondary one.
'Guilt' is not a useless emotion but it has its significance for the rest of humanity as a feedback mechanism to progress on its moral impulse towards the future.

At present the moral system within the majority is not very active [thus the presence of terrible evil at present] but when the moral mechanisms within each individual began to be activated more in the future, then the 'guilt feedback' is essential for greater moral progress.
I think whatever "guilt" is emotionally, it is misnamed. It is more like "shame".
It is not helpful to have a word that stands in for an emotion and at the same time is used as a legal statement of a criminal's condition.
Additionally I would say that othe unhealthy societies would want to demand deep emotional contrition from their subjects.
But then this sort of oppression is common amongst religious fascists like you.
Whereas a healthy society is one which is capable of recognising the Socratic paradox.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:37 am
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:37 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:04 pm

I did not say being a criminal was worng; i said criminals were guilty.
Oh, I agree with you. Did not mean to argue with you, only making an additional point. One may be, "guilty under the law," but in fact, not guilty of any wrong at all.
Ah yes. It is so unusual that people on this Forum respond to agree, that in the rare times it happens, it often seems like a counter arguement
There! See, we agree again, but we have to stop meeting like this.
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:40 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:39 am
Guily is like regret. An empty and useless emotion and no use except as a teaching aid for children.
You need to update your knowledge on what is 'guilt'.

There was the earlier relevant post, i.e.
viewtopic.php?p=548858#p548858

and my post
  • viewtopic.php?p=549044#p549044
    All humans are "programmed" with a potential moral function [algorithm] which is at present has low activity in the majority.

    As a functional system, there is a control feedback to monitor progress towards the intended goals.
    This control feedback is the guilt emotion and impulse, i.e.
    WIKI wrote:Guilt is a moral emotion that occurs when a person believes or realizes—accurately or not—that they have compromised their own standards of conduct or have violated universal moral standards and bear significant responsibility for that violation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_(emotion)
    Note 'guilt' is recognized as a real human emotion, albeit a secondary one.
'Guilt' is not a useless emotion but it has its significance for the rest of humanity as a feedback mechanism to progress on its moral impulse towards the future.

At present the moral system within the majority is not very active [thus the presence of terrible evil at present] but when the moral mechanisms within each individual began to be activated more in the future, then the 'guilt feedback' is essential for greater moral progress.
I think whatever "guilt" is emotionally, it is misnamed. It is more like "shame".
It is not helpful to have a word that stands in for an emotion and at the same time is used as a legal statement of a criminal's condition.
Additionally I would say that othe unhealthy societies would want to demand deep emotional contrition from their subjects.
But then this sort of oppression is common amongst religious fascists like you.
Whereas a healthy society is one which is capable of recognising the Socratic paradox.
Nah, you got it wrong in this case.
Guilt is a secondary emotion and that is as scientific fact.
The term used legally in criminal cases is 'guilty' which is merely borrowed from its original meaning.

The guilt emotion is present in some animals.
Note this [there are loads of such videos in Youtube].
Guilty Dogs Video Compilation 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSC5xEntF_w

The above may be contentious by some but note,
  • However, Charles Darwin observed that the types of behaviors associated with guilt - keeping one's head down, and averting one's gaze - are also seen in other social non-human primate species. On one hand, this should not be too surprising; guilt serves to reinforce social relationships and to minimize the effects of transgressions against social partners. These are important things for any social primate, whether monkey or man. The same patterns have been observed in wolves as well as domesticated dogs.
    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/th ... el-guilty/
I believe the guilt emotion is real [implicit or explicit] and it is not a useless emotion but rather useful for moral progress.
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Sculptor
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:16 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:40 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:39 am
You need to update your knowledge on what is 'guilt'.

There was the earlier relevant post, i.e.
viewtopic.php?p=548858#p548858

and my post
  • viewtopic.php?p=549044#p549044
    All humans are "programmed" with a potential moral function [algorithm] which is at present has low activity in the majority.

    As a functional system, there is a control feedback to monitor progress towards the intended goals.
    This control feedback is the guilt emotion and impulse, i.e.



    Note 'guilt' is recognized as a real human emotion, albeit a secondary one.
'Guilt' is not a useless emotion but it has its significance for the rest of humanity as a feedback mechanism to progress on its moral impulse towards the future.

At present the moral system within the majority is not very active [thus the presence of terrible evil at present] but when the moral mechanisms within each individual began to be activated more in the future, then the 'guilt feedback' is essential for greater moral progress.
I think whatever "guilt" is emotionally, it is misnamed. It is more like "shame".
It is not helpful to have a word that stands in for an emotion and at the same time is used as a legal statement of a criminal's condition.
Additionally I would say that othe unhealthy societies would want to demand deep emotional contrition from their subjects.
But then this sort of oppression is common amongst religious fascists like you.
Whereas a healthy society is one which is capable of recognising the Socratic paradox.
Nah, you got it wrong in this case.
Guilt is a secondary emotion and that is as scientific fact.
The term used legally in criminal cases is 'guilty' which is merely borrowed from its original meaning.
You should check your facts.
GUILT Old English gylt "crime, sin, moral defect, failure of duty,"
GUILTY(adj.)
Old English gyltig "offending, delinquent, criminal," from gylt

DO you EVER chack your "facts"?

The guilt emotion is present in some animals.
Note this [there are loads of such videos in Youtube].
Typical anthropomorphisation
Dogs cannot have the concept of moral defect or crime, so cannot be guilty


The above may be contentious by some but note,
  • However, Charles Darwin observed that the types of behaviors associated with guilt - keeping one's head down, and averting one's gaze - are also seen in other social non-human primate species.
That is what I have called, above "shame".

I believe the guilt emotion is real [implicit or explicit] and it is not a useless emotion but rather useful for moral progress.
What you believe is, as always, of no consequence or importance.
Scientific facts do not eaily apply to subjective things like feelings.
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:37 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:16 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:40 am

I think whatever "guilt" is emotionally, it is misnamed. It is more like "shame".
It is not helpful to have a word that stands in for an emotion and at the same time is used as a legal statement of a criminal's condition.
Additionally I would say that othe unhealthy societies would want to demand deep emotional contrition from their subjects.
But then this sort of oppression is common amongst religious fascists like you.
Whereas a healthy society is one which is capable of recognising the Socratic paradox.
Nah, you got it wrong in this case.
Guilt is a secondary emotion and that is as scientific fact.
The term used legally in criminal cases is 'guilty' which is merely borrowed from its original meaning.
You should check your facts.
GUILT Old English gylt "crime, sin, moral defect, failure of duty,"
GUILTY(adj.)
Old English gyltig "offending, delinquent, criminal," from gylt

DO you EVER chack your "facts"?
What??? :shock:
you rely on facts from a dictionary rather than on scientific truths?

The guilt emotion is present in some animals.
Note this [there are loads of such videos in Youtube].
Typical anthropomorphisation
Dogs cannot have the concept of moral defect or crime, so cannot be guilty
The above may be contentious by some but note,
  • However, Charles Darwin observed that the types of behaviors associated with guilt - keeping one's head down, and averting one's gaze - are also seen in other social non-human primate species.
That is what I have called, above "shame".
The neural circuits re guilt [shame] activated in apes, dogs, and certain animals are from parts and neural branches similar to those of the human brain. You need to update yourself on the evolution of brain anatomy.

'Shame' is synonymous with 'guilt' and scientifically, both originate from the same neural branches in the limbic system.
I believe the guilt emotion is real [implicit or explicit] and it is not a useless emotion but rather useful for moral progress.
What you believe is, as always, of no consequence or importance.
Scientific facts do not eaily apply to subjective things like feelings.
Opinions are highly subjective based more on feelings.

My personal belief and conviction of the above is grounded on accepted scientific truths and supported by evidences.
Have you heard of people who could not bear the pains of their guilt and therefrom confess their murder after some time or years after the murder?
I've read of many people [due to guilt] returning library books after not returning them in years.
There are many instances of people suffering from their guilt emotions and then confess to various evils acts they have done to relieve themselves of the constant pains of guilt.

Note this! Since 'guilt' is an emotion, such guilt emotions could also be triggered when someone think of, deliberated or planned to commit evil acts, and the triggered pains of guilt in such cases would have prevented a lot of real crimes from being committed throughout the history of mankind.
So 'guilt' is a useful emotion.

Note your personal belief regarding the above is based on a dictionary which is merely reflecting common and popular usage of a word which is not necessary a fact.
Any meaning representing facts must be referenced to science or other credible 'framework and system of knowledge' [FSK].
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Immanuel Can »

There are two kinds of guilt: misplaced, and rightful.

Misplaced guilt is false guilt...when one has not done something one should not, or has not failed to do something one should, but feels as if one has.

Rightful guilt is consciousness of having violated the universal moral law, or having failed to do one's moral duty.

Solutions are opposite: for misplaced guilt, a change of perspective. For rightful guilt, repentance, forgiveness and restitution.
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:45 am There are two kinds of guilt: misplaced, and rightful.

Misplaced guilt is false guilt...when one has not done something one should not, or has not failed to do something one should, but feels as if one has.

Rightful guilt is consciousness of having violated the universal moral law, or having failed to do one's moral duty.

Solutions are opposite: for misplaced guilt, a change of perspective. For rightful guilt, repentance, forgiveness and restitution.
"Repentance, forgiveness and restitution" to what? To a God that is illusory and is impossible to be real??

As I had stated 'guilt' is an evolved natural and useful emotion that is used as a feedback control within an internal moral system relevant within certain circumstances and time.
Note this question here.
Where did the Private Internal Moral Laws Arise from?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34249

The ultimate objective each individual [normal] within humanity [only possible for future generations, not the present] is to strive to establish an effective internal moral system such that the guilt emotional faculty is activated but unnecessary so that the individual is naturally and spontaneously morally good is every aspect of life.

In the future there is no need for
"repentance, forgiveness and restitution" to a God that is illusory and is impossible to be real.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:35 am "Repentance, forgiveness and restitution" to what? To a God that is illusory and is impossible to be real??
Well, you'll find out. Just give it some time. The "impossible to be real" is going to call you to account, and relatively soon, I suspect.

But as it is, I specified no particular object of those terms. You jumped to your own conclusion there.

You can repent in your heart, or publicly. You can seek forgiveness from God or from the person you've offended against...and ideally, from both. And you cannot make "resitution" to God...that's impossible: but you can make restitution to somebody you've harmed, provided that harm is of a reversible sort.

But you can take it in the sense you want.
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Sculptor
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:10 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:37 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:16 am
Nah, you got it wrong in this case.
Guilt is a secondary emotion and that is as scientific fact.
The term used legally in criminal cases is 'guilty' which is merely borrowed from its original meaning.
You should check your facts.
GUILT Old English gylt "crime, sin, moral defect, failure of duty,"
GUILTY(adj.)
Old English gyltig "offending, delinquent, criminal," from gylt

DO you EVER chack your "facts"?
What??? :shock:
you rely on facts from a dictionary rather than on scientific truths?
Fuck off. Gaslighting moron.
You made a specific etymological claim.
Grow the fuck up.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:05 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:10 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:37 am

You should check your facts.
GUILT Old English gylt "crime, sin, moral defect, failure of duty,"
GUILTY(adj.)
Old English gyltig "offending, delinquent, criminal," from gylt

DO you EVER chack your "facts"?
What??? :shock:
you rely on facts from a dictionary rather than on scientific truths?
Fuck off. Gaslighting moron.
You made a specific etymological claim.
Grow the fuck up.
That is your usual typical response when you are 'caught with your pants down'.
You are so stupid to claim that Dictionaries confirm facts.
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Sculptor
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:06 am
Sculptor wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:05 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:10 am
What??? :shock:
you rely on facts from a dictionary rather than on scientific truths?
Fuck off. Gaslighting moron.
You made a specific etymological claim.
Grow the fuck up.
That is your usual typical response when you are 'caught with your pants down'.
You are so stupid to claim that Dictionaries confirm facts.
:D
You are the one with your panys down.
Down and fucked.

BTW just because science starts to use a word does not mean they own the definition.
Guilt is a legal term, and not an emotional one, as I said.
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Note the context of the article in the OP?
https://philosophynow.org/issues/147/What_Is_Guilt
Like many others, I’ve experienced guilt more than once since March 2020.
I faced my own guilt when I couldn’t be by my father’s side in France; I wondered if I had honored my friendships (no); or my values (on good days); and if I hadn’t rubbed anyone the wrong way as fatigue settled (more than once).
I felt guilty, too, for all the care-free international trips I used to go on, and for everything I could no longer take for granted, and for other little, petty things I’m not quite ready to confess.
Obviously the above is related to emotional feelings which is best explained as fact via science rather than your mumbo jumbo.
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:21 am Note the context of the article in the OP?
https://philosophynow.org/issues/147/What_Is_Guilt
Like many others, I’ve experienced guilt more than once since March 2020.
I faced my own guilt when I couldn’t be by my father’s side in France; I wondered if I had honored my friendships (no); or my values (on good days); and if I hadn’t rubbed anyone the wrong way as fatigue settled (more than once).
I felt guilty, too, for all the care-free international trips I used to go on, and for everything I could no longer take for granted, and for other little, petty things I’m not quite ready to confess.
Obviously the above is related to emotional feelings which is best explained as fact via science rather than your mumbo jumbo.
I always feel guilty when I hold back using profanities towards your stupid attempts to attack those poor ol' theists.
Your attacks clearly stem from an existential crisis you have in coping with a world and a reality that you totally lack the intelligence to comprehend scientifically. :mrgreen:
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:15 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:21 am Note the context of the article in the OP?
https://philosophynow.org/issues/147/What_Is_Guilt
Like many others, I’ve experienced guilt more than once since March 2020.
I faced my own guilt when I couldn’t be by my father’s side in France; I wondered if I had honored my friendships (no); or my values (on good days); and if I hadn’t rubbed anyone the wrong way as fatigue settled (more than once).
I felt guilty, too, for all the care-free international trips I used to go on, and for everything I could no longer take for granted, and for other little, petty things I’m not quite ready to confess.
Obviously the above is related to emotional feelings which is best explained as fact via science rather than your mumbo jumbo.
I always feel guilty when I hold back using profanities towards your stupid attempts to attack those poor ol' theists.
Your attacks clearly stem from an existential crisis you have in coping with a world and a reality that you totally lack the intelligence to comprehend scientifically. :mrgreen:
It is is because your 'vulgar' God created and commanded you to use profanities, so you feel guilty because you are going against your God's nature and commands to swear at others?
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:28 am
attofishpi wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:15 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:21 am Note the context of the article in the OP?
https://philosophynow.org/issues/147/What_Is_Guilt



Obviously the above is related to emotional feelings which is best explained as fact via science rather than your mumbo jumbo.
I always feel guilty when I hold back using profanities towards your stupid attempts to attack those poor ol' theists.
Your attacks clearly stem from an existential crisis you have in coping with a world and a reality that you totally lack the intelligence to comprehend scientifically. :mrgreen:
It is is because your 'vulgar' God created and commanded you to use profanities, so you feel guilty because you are going against your God's nature and commands to swear at others?
If you don't see the contradictions you are making in the above statement, well..try, try again - re-read what you just wrote.
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