What Is Guilt?

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Nick_A wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:22 pm VA wrote:
Your above point from the Bible is groundless because God is impossible to be real.
Simone Weil wrote:
It is only the impossible that is possible for God. He has given over the possible to the mechanics of matter and the autonomy of his creatures.
Simone is right but can your atheism allow you to understand why?
Simone point is unrealistic because she jumped to the conclusion that God exists as real without 'proofs' but merely based on blind faith.
Plus why did her God has the gender 'he' which implied having a penis?
Age
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Re: What Is Guilt?

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Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:41 am
Nick_A wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:19 am Guilt is a learned emotional reaction from secularized moral beliefs. Remorse of conscience in contrast is a universal objective human quality always known. Where guilt is learned, remorse of conscience is remembered.
Where did you get that? Any reference to it or it is merely your personal opinions.

Conscience is dealt extensively on a secular basis.
Conscience is a general awareness of what morally right or wrong.
Conscience would have existed long before any religion was established.
For example incest-avoidance which is a natural instinct is related to conscience.

Guilt OTOH is triggered when one has committed what is morally [inherent] wrong.
Where did you get that? Any reference to it or it is merely your personal opinions?
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Sculptor
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Sculptor »

Only criminals are guilty.
Walker
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Walker »

Something that will eat you up.

After you is eaten up, life goes on.
Gary Childress
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Gary Childress »

Guilt is my punishment for things I've done wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.
Gary Childress
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Gary Childress »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:21 am Only criminals are guilty.
How do you define a "criminal"? Or what sorts of actions make a person a "criminal" in your estimation? Is guilt only associated with those who are "criminals?" Can a person legitimately feel guilty over something and not be a "criminal?"
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Sculptor
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Re: What Is Guilt?

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Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:17 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:21 am Only criminals are guilty.
How do you define a "criminal"?
A person convincted of a crime.
Or what sorts of actions make a person a "criminal" in your estimation?
QED
Is guilt only associated with those who are "criminals?" Can a person legitimately feel guilty over something and not be a "criminal?"
Gulit in this sense is a legal term. A state of being imposed by the authorities, and not something felt.

All feelings of guilt are fake.

People do have feelings about events in which they think they might have made a mistake.
There are big problems with pinning a name on "feelings" for several reasons. THe main reason is that all feelings are subjective and rarely can a single word exhaust the meaning and quality of the emptional spectrum.
But in this particular case there is a serious problem with feelings of guilt and shame.
There are two ways one can sunder events which have led to error that have led to such feelings.
Either the event was done intentionally or the event has been done unintentionally.
If I acted intentionally then the right response to a mistake would not be guilt. The correct response wopuld be an acknowledgement that I was acting in the best possible way at the time, and that I shall learn from the event to act better next time. If I acted intentionally to cause harm then guilt is not the correct response. The correct resonse is to stand by my actions.

If the mistake happened without my intention then I have nothing to feel sorry for and so guilt is not the correct response, but any recompense I think valuable in the circumstances would be the next thing to do.

Guily is like regret. An empty and useless emotion and no use except as a teaching aid for children.
Walker
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Walker »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:56 pm Guily is like regret. An empty and useless emotion and no use except as a teaching aid for children.
'Tis also also a choiceless condition, both legal and psychological, once the issue of cause has been settled.
popeye1945
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by popeye1945 »

attofishpi wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:20 pm
Philosophy Now wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:38 pm What Is Guilt?

https://philosophynow.org/issues/147/What_Is_Guilt
..a nuisance.
A societal price to be paid for belonging. I knowledge that you have violated the trust and/or standards of the group, and may pay the price of being ostracised.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What Is Guilt?

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Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:21 am Only criminals are guilty.
Since, "crime," is an act that breaks some government law, and all laws are just man-made edicts there is nothing wrong with being a criminal. Under most governments it is impossible to be both law-abiding and virtuous.

Being guilty of a crime may actually be a virtue and in most societies, true virtue is a crime.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:56 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:17 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:21 am Only criminals are guilty.
How do you define a "criminal"?
A person convincted of a crime.
Or what sorts of actions make a person a "criminal" in your estimation?
QED
Is guilt only associated with those who are "criminals?" Can a person legitimately feel guilty over something and not be a "criminal?"
Gulit in this sense is a legal term. A state of being imposed by the authorities, and not something felt.

All feelings of guilt are fake.

People do have feelings about events in which they think they might have made a mistake.
There are big problems with pinning a name on "feelings" for several reasons. THe main reason is that all feelings are subjective and rarely can a single word exhaust the meaning and quality of the emptional spectrum.
But in this particular case there is a serious problem with feelings of guilt and shame.
There are two ways one can sunder events which have led to error that have led to such feelings.
Either the event was done intentionally or the event has been done unintentionally.
If I acted intentionally then the right response to a mistake would not be guilt. The correct response wopuld be an acknowledgement that I was acting in the best possible way at the time, and that I shall learn from the event to act better next time. If I acted intentionally to cause harm then guilt is not the correct response. The correct resonse is to stand by my actions.

If the mistake happened without my intention then I have nothing to feel sorry for and so guilt is not the correct response, but any recompense I think valuable in the circumstances would be the next thing to do.

Guily is like regret. An empty and useless emotion and no use except as a teaching aid for children.
I quite agree:
Guily is like regret. An empty and useless emotion ...
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Sculptor
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Re: What Is Guilt?

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RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:42 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:21 am Only criminals are guilty.
Since, "crime," is an act that breaks some government law, and all laws are just man-made edicts there is nothing wrong with being a criminal. Under most governments it is impossible to be both law-abiding and virtuous.

Being guilty of a crime may actually be a virtue and in most societies, true virtue is a crime.
I did not say being a criminal was worng; i said criminals were guilty.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:04 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:42 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:21 am Only criminals are guilty.
Since, "crime," is an act that breaks some government law, and all laws are just man-made edicts there is nothing wrong with being a criminal. Under most governments it is impossible to be both law-abiding and virtuous.

Being guilty of a crime may actually be a virtue and in most societies, true virtue is a crime.
I did not say being a criminal was worng; i said criminals were guilty.
Oh, I agree with you. Did not mean to argue with you, only making an additional point. One may be, "guilty under the law," but in fact, not guilty of any wrong at all.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What Is Guilt?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:56 pm Gulit in this sense is a legal term. A state of being imposed by the authorities, and not something felt.

All feelings of guilt are fake.

People do have feelings about events in which they think they might have made a mistake.
There are big problems with pinning a name on "feelings" for several reasons. THe main reason is that all feelings are subjective and rarely can a single word exhaust the meaning and quality of the emptional spectrum.
But in this particular case there is a serious problem with feelings of guilt and shame.
There are two ways one can sunder events which have led to error that have led to such feelings.
Either the event was done intentionally or the event has been done unintentionally.
If I acted intentionally then the right response to a mistake would not be guilt. The correct response wopuld be an acknowledgement that I was acting in the best possible way at the time, and that I shall learn from the event to act better next time. If I acted intentionally to cause harm then guilt is not the correct response. The correct resonse is to stand by my actions.

If the mistake happened without my intention then I have nothing to feel sorry for and so guilt is not the correct response, but any recompense I think valuable in the circumstances would be the next thing to do.

Guily is like regret. An empty and useless emotion and no use except as a teaching aid for children.
You need to update your knowledge on what is 'guilt'.

There was the earlier relevant post, i.e.
viewtopic.php?p=548858#p548858

and my post
  • viewtopic.php?p=549044#p549044
    All humans are "programmed" with a potential moral function [algorithm] which is at present has low activity in the majority.

    As a functional system, there is a control feedback to monitor progress towards the intended goals.
    This control feedback is the guilt emotion and impulse, i.e.
    WIKI wrote:Guilt is a moral emotion that occurs when a person believes or realizes—accurately or not—that they have compromised their own standards of conduct or have violated universal moral standards and bear significant responsibility for that violation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_(emotion)
    Note 'guilt' is recognized as a real human emotion, albeit a secondary one.
'Guilt' is not a useless emotion but it has its significance for the rest of humanity as a feedback mechanism to progress on its moral impulse towards the future.

At present the moral system within the majority is not very active [thus the presence of terrible evil at present] but when the moral mechanisms within each individual began to be activated more in the future, then the 'guilt feedback' is essential for greater moral progress.
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Sculptor
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Re: What Is Guilt?

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RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:37 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:04 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:42 pm
Since, "crime," is an act that breaks some government law, and all laws are just man-made edicts there is nothing wrong with being a criminal. Under most governments it is impossible to be both law-abiding and virtuous.

Being guilty of a crime may actually be a virtue and in most societies, true virtue is a crime.
I did not say being a criminal was worng; i said criminals were guilty.
Oh, I agree with you. Did not mean to argue with you, only making an additional point. One may be, "guilty under the law," but in fact, not guilty of any wrong at all.
Ah yes. It is so unusual that people on this Forum respond to agree, that in the rare times it happens, it often seems like a counter arguement
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