Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Discussion of articles that appear in the magazine.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Philosophy Now
Posts: 1042
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:49 am

Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Philosophy Now »

Hilarius Bogbinder discovers the surprisingly revolutionary views of one of the Catholic Church”s most revered philosophers.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/Thomas_Aquinas_1225-1274
Belinda
Posts: 5490
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Belinda »

Philosophy Now wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:23 pm Hilarius Bogbinder discovers the surprisingly revolutionary views of one of the Catholic Church”s most revered philosophers.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/Th ... _1225-1274
Quotation from the work cited:
Much has been written about his insights, perhaps above all his idea that God is the full actualisation of potentiality. In the history of philosophy,
This is why Thomas Aquinas is said to have Christianised Aristotle. Aristotelian Forms are not like Platonic Forms. Aristotle was a part time marine biologist who observed that living individuals grew and developed to maturity which was their apogee that's to say their ultimate Form. The human form was also capable of reaching its apogee and that was what men should do---strive to be the be the best they can be.

Thomas Aquinas took up that theme and added that the Form of a man was God-given and that we should each try to be like Christ who was the ultimate expression of the Form of man.
Veganman
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:17 pm

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Veganman »

The "philosopher" who basically said that you can do what you like to animals because they cannot reason.
seeds
Posts: 1262
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by seeds »

Belinda wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:42 pm
Philosophy Now wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:23 pm Hilarius Bogbinder discovers the surprisingly revolutionary views of one of the Catholic Church”s most revered philosophers.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/Th ... _1225-1274
Quotation from the work cited:
Much has been written about his insights, perhaps above all his idea that God is the full actualisation of potentiality. In the history of philosophy,
This is why Thomas Aquinas is said to have Christianised Aristotle. Aristotelian Forms are not like Platonic Forms. Aristotle was a part time marine biologist who observed that living individuals grew and developed to maturity which was their apogee that's to say their ultimate Form. The human form was also capable of reaching its apogee and that was what men should do---strive to be the be the best they can be.

Thomas Aquinas took up that theme and added that the Form of a man was God-given and that we should each try to be like Christ who was the ultimate expression of the Form of man.
The idea that we should each try to be like Christ comes with a serious problem.

And the problem is that if we were to emulate his earthly behavior to the fullest degree, then based on Christ's alleged celibacy, all human life would soon come to an end.

According to Wiki regarding some interpretations of Jesus' take on celibacy...
Wiki wrote: Celibacy

Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus is reported to have referred to the behavior of eunuchs to illustrate an approach to sexuality: "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake." (Matthew 19:3–12)

The term "eunuch" normally referred to a castrated man. Several theologians and Bible commentators have interpreted this passage as indicating Jesus's support for celibacy.

The early Christian writer Origen interpreted Jesus' words literally and so physically castrated himself as an act of devotion. The early Church Father Tertullian wrote that Jesus himself lived as a "eunuch", likewise encouraged people to adopt this practice.
_______
Belinda
Posts: 5490
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Belinda »

seeds wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:25 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:42 pm
Philosophy Now wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:23 pm Hilarius Bogbinder discovers the surprisingly revolutionary views of one of the Catholic Church”s most revered philosophers.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/Th ... _1225-1274
Quotation from the work cited:
Much has been written about his insights, perhaps above all his idea that God is the full actualisation of potentiality. In the history of philosophy,
This is why Thomas Aquinas is said to have Christianised Aristotle. Aristotelian Forms are not like Platonic Forms. Aristotle was a part time marine biologist who observed that living individuals grew and developed to maturity which was their apogee that's to say their ultimate Form. The human form was also capable of reaching its apogee and that was what men should do---strive to be the be the best they can be.

Thomas Aquinas took up that theme and added that the Form of a man was God-given and that we should each try to be like Christ who was the ultimate expression of the Form of man.
The idea that we should each try to be like Christ comes with a serious problem.

And the problem is that if we were to emulate his earthly behavior to the fullest degree, then based on Christ's alleged celibacy, all human life would soon come to an end.

According to Wiki regarding some interpretations of Jesus' take on celibacy...
Wiki wrote: Celibacy

Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus is reported to have referred to the behavior of eunuchs to illustrate an approach to sexuality: "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake." (Matthew 19:3–12)

The term "eunuch" normally referred to a castrated man. Several theologians and Bible commentators have interpreted this passage as indicating Jesus's support for celibacy.

The early Christian writer Origen interpreted Jesus' words literally and so physically castrated himself as an act of devotion. The early Church Father Tertullian wrote that Jesus himself lived as a "eunuch", likewise encouraged people to adopt this practice.
_______
It makes no difference to the Christian moral code whether Jesus or Christ were celibate or not.
Veganman
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:17 pm

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Veganman »

He must have known how humanity was going to turn out.
Impenitent
Posts: 3651
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Impenitent »

seeds wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:25 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:42 pm
Philosophy Now wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:23 pm Hilarius Bogbinder discovers the surprisingly revolutionary views of one of the Catholic Church”s most revered philosophers.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/146/Th ... _1225-1274
Quotation from the work cited:
Much has been written about his insights, perhaps above all his idea that God is the full actualisation of potentiality. In the history of philosophy,
This is why Thomas Aquinas is said to have Christianised Aristotle. Aristotelian Forms are not like Platonic Forms. Aristotle was a part time marine biologist who observed that living individuals grew and developed to maturity which was their apogee that's to say their ultimate Form. The human form was also capable of reaching its apogee and that was what men should do---strive to be the be the best they can be.

Thomas Aquinas took up that theme and added that the Form of a man was God-given and that we should each try to be like Christ who was the ultimate expression of the Form of man.
The idea that we should each try to be like Christ comes with a serious problem.

And the problem is that if we were to emulate his earthly behavior to the fullest degree, then based on Christ's alleged celibacy, all human life would soon come to an end.

According to Wiki regarding some interpretations of Jesus' take on celibacy...
Wiki wrote: Celibacy

Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus is reported to have referred to the behavior of eunuchs to illustrate an approach to sexuality: "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake." (Matthew 19:3–12)

The term "eunuch" normally referred to a castrated man. Several theologians and Bible commentators have interpreted this passage as indicating Jesus's support for celibacy.

The early Christian writer Origen interpreted Jesus' words literally and so physically castrated himself as an act of devotion. The early Church Father Tertullian wrote that Jesus himself lived as a "eunuch", likewise encouraged people to adopt this practice.
_______
to say nothing of death by crucifixion...

-Imp
Walker
Posts: 9464
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Walker »

seeds wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:25 pm And the problem is that if we were to emulate his earthly behavior to the fullest degree, then based on Christ's alleged celibacy, all human life would soon come to an end.
The same paradigm also includes virgin birth, so no problemo.

In fact, an evolution in human behavior would likely occur should all die to the known, and be divinely reborn.
fp_
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:30 pm

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by fp_ »

The article on Thomas Aquinas refers to Albertus Magnus as being Italian. However, according to a variety of reliable printed and online sources Albertus Magnus was born in Germany. Why, in this article, is Albertus Magnus considered to be an Italian?

This is a rewording of a previous post I had written on 'Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:35 pm' which was 'disapproved' for reasons I fail to understand.
Last edited by fp_ on Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
owl of Minerva
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:16 pm

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by owl of Minerva »

The literal-minded find the virgin birth confounding. It is likely metaphorical, as in the Gita verse: My womb is the Great Prakriti into which I deposit the seed of My Intelligence; this is the cause of the birth of all beings.

If humans evolved to soul realization by divine fiat rather than by free will and self effort they would be robotic rather than free.
Belinda
Posts: 5490
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Belinda »

owl of Minerva wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:33 pm The literal-minded find the virgin birth confounding. It is likely metaphorical, as in the Gita verse: My womb is the Great Prakriti into which I deposit the seed of My Intelligence; this is the cause of the birth of all beings.

If humans evolved to soul realization by divine fiat rather than by free will and self effort they would be robotic rather than free.
I'm partial to symbolism, and can find symbolic resonance where none was intended.
owl of Minerva
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:16 pm

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by owl of Minerva »

It is good to be partial to symbolism, many are not. In the past what was intuitively felt to be true was often expressed in symbols. Einstein believed truth could be arrived at through thought experiments. Math is a symbolic language for the expression of abstract realisms. Religion has its own symbols, as often often language is inadequate, it is adequate to sense experience mostly.
Belinda
Posts: 5490
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Belinda »

owl of Minerva wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:01 pm It is good to be partial to symbolism, many are not. In the past what was intuitively felt to be true was often expressed in symbols. Einstein believed truth could be arrived at through thought experiments. Math is a symbolic language for the expression of abstract realisms. Religion has its own symbols, as often often language is inadequate, it is adequate to sense experience mostly.
The symbols of religions can be difficult . Jesus said those who have ears to hear let them hear. Do you think symbols can be taught?
owl of Minerva
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:16 pm

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by owl of Minerva »

It is an interesting question to consider, whether symbols can be thought. For some reason the interpretation of symbols comes easily to some people while to others they are baffling. It is not easy to understand why. It may be similar to math where someone may be a math whiz while another has to struggle with it. Or to playing the piano, one may be a virtuoso while another after much effort is no more than adequate.
Belinda
Posts: 5490
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

Post by Belinda »

owl of Minerva wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:00 am It is an interesting question to consider, whether symbols can be thought. For some reason the interpretation of symbols comes easily to some people while to others they are baffling. It is not easy to understand why. It may be similar to math where someone may be a math whiz while another has to struggle with it. Or to playing the piano, one may be a virtuoso while another after much effort is no more than adequate.
Symbols are used a lot in religious practice such as church services. It does not matter to most people that deep meanings of symbols are not understood, as much of the purpose of participating in the service is joining together in fellowship so that observance of the moral code is a little easier, and so that individuals may be comforted.

The priest at a mass or a communion service uses well known symbols. It probably does not matter to the communicant or the priest whether or not the communicant reflects on deeper meanings of the wine and the wafer. Rituals have functions simply as rituals.

Symbolism as a cultural movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolism_(arts)

Symbols are not to be confused with public toilets graphic signs, or roadway graphics like the one for falling rocks. Neither are symbols to be confused with signals such as highway commands such as give way graphic.
Post Reply