What is Panspiritism?

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Belinda
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by Belinda » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:17 pm

Nick wrote:
We may live by blind faith which is psychological slavery but we do have the potential to live with the experience of conscious faith which is strength, So I don’t know what you mean by faith.
I'll explain what I mean by faith. Faith is what keeps every living creature wanting to live unless it is in utter despair. Faith is nothing like what you wrote.

Be reasonable. Why would an ineffable Source responsible for the creation of the universe worry about telling you how to live. It is part of universal knowledge and a priori knowledge for us. We just have to remember it and take advantage of what helps us to remember..
I agree why would it. I am not sure about a priori knowledge. I do tend to believe in it, at least inasmuch as we seek meaning and pattern as if these were there possibly to be found.


There are far too many people concerned with indoctrinated morality and not enough who have become open to the experience of “conscience.” In fact how many even know the difference?
Conscience and consciousness are much the same thing. Individuals' Consciousnesses/consciences are sometimes stifled by indoctrination by those who want to keep power to themselves.

Belinda, if what you say is true and the fate of Man is dust to dust it makes the Crucifixion and the choice it offers the ultimate expression of stupidity.

It's the opposite of stupidity. The Crucifixion symbolises freedom because symbolically it means defiance of stupidity.

Nick_A
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:36 pm

Belinda
I'll explain what I mean by faith. Faith is what keeps every living creature wanting to live unless it is in utter despair. Faith is nothing like what you wrote.
Are you saying that the survival instinct is by definition faith? Obviously I disagree.
Conscience and consciousness are much the same thing. Individuals' Consciousnesses/consciences are sometimes stifled by indoctrination by those who want to keep power to themselves.
Consciousness is the highest intellectual function while conscience is the highest function of emotions. Of course they are related but not the same. Society has done its best to diminish our conscience, consciousness, and sensory perception. But that is not to say these potentials don’t exist.
It's the opposite of stupidity. The Crucifixion symbolises freedom because symbolically it means defiance of stupidity.
But the way you describe it indicates that for you it is one form of stupidity opposing another. What sense is that?

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A_Seagull
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by A_Seagull » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:29 am

Belinda wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:17 pm

I'll explain what I mean by faith. Faith is what keeps every living creature wanting to live unless it is in utter despair. Faith is nothing like what you wrote.
Faith is believing that 2 + 2 = 5 just because someone else says it is and even though your instincts say it isn't.

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A_Seagull
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by A_Seagull » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:32 am

Philosophy Now wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:33 am
Steve Taylor introduces an alternative way of conceiving consciousness.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/131/Wh ... nspiritism
Panspiritism and the 'creative quality of fundamental consciousness' are fanciful fantasies.

PeteJ
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by PeteJ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:25 am

Belinda wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:33 pm
Petej wrote:
Dual-aspect monism is a form of dualism
No it isn't! Dual aspect monism is a form of monism as its name says ; idealism and materialism are the other two main monisms.

The great eastern philosophies are ontologically monist not ontologically dualist philosophies.
Monism is not non-dualism, which is why they have different names. Consider advaita (not-two). This word is use specifically to avoid the suggestion of monism. Russell was a neutral monist and rejected mysticism as nonsense. Monism fares no better than dualism in philosophy.

I would accept that many people (EM Forster comes to mind) see Indian religion as monism, and in ordinary conversation this is not a problem. But in philosophy, where we must be rigorous, monism does not work and solves no problems.

PeteJ
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by PeteJ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:27 am

A_Seagull wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:32 am
Panspiritism and the 'creative quality of fundamental consciousness' are fanciful fantasies.
This answer might work on facebook but on a philosophy site it's not worth posting without some argument.

PeteJ
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by PeteJ » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:34 am

PeteJ wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:33 pm
Steve Taylor wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:19 pm
Yes, I've pondered over whether panspiritism could be seen as a form of dual aspect monism...But I'm not sure if it quite fits.
I feel you have the right idea. Panspiritism is best seen as non-dualism and I believe Steve Taylor would be happy with this.

Dual-aspect monism is a form of dualism and this doesn't work as a fundamental theory. Non-dualism is largely unknown in the philosophy department as is the Perennial philosophy or 'mysticism'.

The philosophical foundation of panspiritism is explained by Nagarjuna.
Steve - My apologies. I hadn't noticed it was you posting so my remarks were inappropriate.

Would you agree that panspiritism requires non-dualism? This is what I've suggested in the article I mentioned to you, so I hope so.

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A_Seagull
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by A_Seagull » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:15 pm

PeteJ wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:27 am
A_Seagull wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:32 am
Panspiritism and the 'creative quality of fundamental consciousness' are fanciful fantasies.
This answer might work on facebook but on a philosophy site it's not worth posting without some argument.
I could say the same about yours!

.... and do try to stay on topic...

Belinda
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by Belinda » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:45 am

A_Seagull wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:29 am
Belinda wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:17 pm

I'll explain what I mean by faith. Faith is what keeps every living creature wanting to live unless it is in utter despair. Faith is nothing like what you wrote.
Faith is believing that 2 + 2 = 5 just because someone else says it is and even though your instincts say it isn't.

But what you give an example of is not faith it's gullibility

Faith is not a belief or the ability to believe. Faith is absence of despair it's psychological.

I understand your point of view which sees the decadence of religious sects who look to literal meanings of some holy myth or code of ethics instead of taking the courage of faith from the spirit(if any) of the code or myth.

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A_Seagull
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by A_Seagull » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:27 pm

Belinda wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:45 am
A_Seagull wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:29 am
Belinda wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:17 pm

I'll explain what I mean by faith. Faith is what keeps every living creature wanting to live unless it is in utter despair. Faith is nothing like what you wrote.
Faith is believing that 2 + 2 = 5 just because someone else says it is and even though your instincts say it isn't.

But what you give an example of is not faith it's gullibility

Faith is not a belief or the ability to believe. Faith is absence of despair it's psychological.

I understand your point of view which sees the decadence of religious sects who look to literal meanings of some holy myth or code of ethics instead of taking the courage of faith from the spirit(if any) of the code or myth.
So if I understand you correctly , your interpretation of faith is the opposite of what I suggested, viz: Faith is believing that 2+2=4 when everyone around you is insisting that 2+2=5.

Belinda
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by Belinda » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:13 am

A_Seagull wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:27 pm
Belinda wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:45 am
A_Seagull wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:29 am


Faith is believing that 2 + 2 = 5 just because someone else says it is and even though your instincts say it isn't.

But what you give an example of is not faith it's gullibility

Faith is not a belief or the ability to believe. Faith is absence of despair it's psychological.

I understand your point of view which sees the decadence of religious sects who look to literal meanings of some holy myth or code of ethics instead of taking the courage of faith from the spirit(if any) of the code or myth.
So if I understand you correctly , your interpretation of faith is the opposite of what I suggested, viz: Faith is believing that 2+2=4 when everyone around you is insisting that 2+2=5.
Not "the opposite" it's not a binary thing (thanks Univalence!) but yes, faith includes the courage of clinging to reason when everyone else is mad.

Despair would succumb to a prevailing or ambient madness

Gryfyd
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by Gryfyd » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:52 am

Impenitent wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:45 pm
panspiritism reminds me of the wok-king dead...

-Imp
:D That's really funny, I laughed hard. wok: pan, spirit: dead

PeteJ
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by PeteJ » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:15 pm

Atla wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:38 pm
Exactly. Western philosophy is still far from realizing that dual-aspect monism, and even idealism and materialism are deep down dualistic philosophies.
This may be the most useful comment I've read so far on this forum.

Atla
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by Atla » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:15 pm

PeteJ wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:15 pm
Atla wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:38 pm
Exactly. Western philosophy is still far from realizing that dual-aspect monism, and even idealism and materialism are deep down dualistic philosophies.
This may be the most useful comment I've read so far on this forum.
Thanks :)

In fact I find the conclusion inescapable that all dualistic philosophies were recently destroyed by actual physics experiments that demonstrate quantum non-separability. All ideas of actual seperations, divisions are wrong (as far as we can tell), proving non-dual thinking correct and throwing Western philosophy in general into the trash can.

Turns out it was mostly just a 3000 years long acid trip. Except it may take another 100-200 years until this becomes common knowledge, so seekers are kinda forced to go ahead and continue their investigations on their own.

PeteJ
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Re: What is Panspiritism?

Post by PeteJ » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:25 am

Atla wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:15 pm
Thanks :)

In fact I find the conclusion inescapable that all dualistic philosophies were recently destroyed by actual physics experiments that demonstrate quantum non-separability. All ideas of actual seperations, divisions are wrong (as far as we can tell), proving non-dual thinking correct and throwing Western philosophy in general into the trash can.

Turns out it was mostly just a 3000 years long acid trip. Except it may take another 100-200 years until this becomes common knowledge, so seekers are kinda forced to go ahead and continue their investigations on their own.
Western philosophy was placed in trash-can by Russell, who wrote of history of it. He makes it very clear that if we adopt his approach to philosophy then it will make no sense to anybody. He concludes that there is no knowledge to be acquired in metaphysics, and it is clear that if we reject all hint of mysticism (as opposed to muddle) in our philosophy then an inability to make sense of it will be the outcome.

It's just poor scholarship. But I feel things are changing.

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