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Unproven assumptions

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:37 pm
by duszek
It seems to me that most of what we say if full of unproven assumptions.

The sentence I have just written does not assume anything because of the introduction unit "it seems to me".

The second sentence I have just written does not assume anything either, because it is purely analytical.
Or do you see any assumption in it of any kind ?
Please be as intransigant as Descartes.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:51 pm
by Scott Mayers
duszek wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:37 pm
It seems to me that most of what we say if full of unproven assumptions.

The sentence I have just written does not assume anything because of the introduction unit "it seems to me".

The second sentence I have just written does not assume anything either, because it is purely analytical.
Or do you see any assumption in it of any kind ?
Please be as intransigant as Descartes.
You're assuming lots. You assume that some person can read this in your language. You assume someone to respond to your question. ...etc.

You are wrong to state that adding "it seems to me" as some get out-of-jail card on the potential accusation of your assumption too. Anything you EXPECT others to 'trust' of your claims or statements at all is an "assumption" that you expect others to at least presume 'true', even if just for the sake of argument.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 pm
by Eodnhoj7
duszek wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:37 pm
It seems to me that most of what we say if full of unproven assumptions.

The sentence I have just written does not assume anything because of the introduction unit "it seems to me".

The second sentence I have just written does not assume anything either, because it is purely analytical.
Or do you see any assumption in it of any kind ?
Please be as intransigant as Descartes.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26448

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:57 pm
by duszek
Scott

I assume that someone can read my sentence ?
No, I hope so but if I am wrong then the truth value of the sentence does not change.

I assume that someone will answer it ?
No, I only hope so.

Please point out some other assumptions if you see any.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:45 pm
by Impenitent
you assume that your idea of the meaning of pain (or any term) is the same as that of everyone else...

delivering a child...

having a limb severed from your body...

partially burned in a fire...

which pain?

one assumes the approximation of meaning of words themselves...

-Imp

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:37 am
by A_Seagull
duszek wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:37 pm
It seems to me that most of what we say if full of unproven assumptions.

The sentence I have just written does not assume anything because of the introduction unit "it seems to me".

The second sentence I have just written does not assume anything either, because it is purely analytical.
Or do you see any assumption in it of any kind ?
Please be as intransigant as Descartes.
You are assuming that statements can be something more than communications.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:17 pm
by duszek
A_Seagull wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:37 am

You are assuming that statements can be something more than communications.
What makes you think that I assume this ?
And what is this something more ?

Let me try to find some assumptions in your sentence or statement. :lol:

You assume that to me statements and communications are not the same thing.
That to me communications are a subsection of statements.

Can we agree on this ?

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:07 pm
by Walker
duszek wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:37 pm
It seems to me that most of what we say if full of unproven assumptions.

The sentence I have just written does not assume anything because of the introduction unit "it seems to me".

The second sentence I have just written does not assume anything either, because it is purely analytical.
Or do you see any assumption in it of any kind ?
Please be as intransigant as Descartes.
Did you see the recent Jeopardy Champ? He was a professional gambler, quite knowledgable and creative. They brought in an expert and fed her questions to challenge him. They may have even rigged his buzzer, who knows, it's entertainment.

Answer: Closer to this situation, a thread’s 20-1 view/post ratio is proof of a particular assumption.
Question: What does beneign* befuddlement mean?

Relax with good intent and see where it goes.

Q: From this, which is the assumption?
- the taking up of a person into heaven?
- the taking over of another's debts?
- ARROGANCE, PRETENSION?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assumption


* a need for spell-check

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:50 am
by A_Seagull
duszek wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:17 pm
A_Seagull wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:37 am

You are assuming that statements can be something more than communications.
What makes you think that I assume this ?
And what is this something more ?

Let me try to find some assumptions in your sentence or statement. :lol:

You assume that to me statements and communications are not the same thing.
That to me communications are a subsection of statements.

Can we agree on this ?
You asked a question: "Or do you see any assumption in it of any kind ? " .. I answered your question.

I presumed, but did not assume, that you were a reasonably rational person with a genuine interest in exploring 'assumptions'. Perhaps I was wrong.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:00 pm
by duszek
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding.

I don´t quite see a difference between an assumption and a presumption.

In a syllogism it is an unproven premise.

What we assume to be true is only visible in our utterances. We cannot be sure what other people assume just like this, by intuition or whatever. We can guess, of course, but a guess is only a guess.

What I wanted to discuss were unproven assumptions as they appear in our utterances.
On this forum our written statements in posts.

If you don´t wish to continue this because you are disappointed, Seagull, then it´s o.k.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:00 pm
by duszek
Walker

You sound very enigmatic to me.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:34 am
by A_Seagull
duszek wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:00 pm


I don´t quite see a difference between an assumption and a presumption.
The difference is subtle.. for me a presumption is something that I accept for the purpose of a response of some form; whereas an assumption is something I would use as a foundation for further inferences.[/quote]
What I wanted to discuss were unproven assumptions as they appear in our utterances.
Assumptions are by their very nature unproven, if they could be proven they would not be assumptions.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:28 am
by Skepdick
A_Seagull wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:34 am
Assumptions are by their very nature unproven, if they could be proven they would not be assumptions.
Begging the question.

If the distinction between an assumption and presumption is but a matter of proof, then what is proof?

How would I go about proving that today is Friday?

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:12 pm
by -1-
Skepdick wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:28 am
A_Seagull wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:34 am
Assumptions are by their very nature unproven, if they could be proven they would not be assumptions.
Begging the question.

If the distinction between an assumption and presumption is but a matter of proof, then what is proof?

How would I go about proving that today is Friday?
How would you go about proving that today is Friday? By pointing at a calendar.

Now try to prove the assumption that you are Logic by yet another name.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:14 pm
by -1-
Skepdick wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:28 am
what is proof?
never ask a question you yourself can't answer.

You tell us, Logic, what proof is.