Page 2 of 7

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:04 am
by Skepdick
-1- wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:14 pm
never ask a question you yourself can't answer.
Except I can.

Unless you are conflating evidence and proof, it is a meaningless notion outside of deductive systems.

In a deductive context a proof is (ostensively) just a computer program. Certainly a philosophical anti-climax.

Would be a shame if you had to contrive a different use for the word "proof" just to keep the mystery alive.
-1- wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:12 pm
How would you go about proving that today is Friday? By pointing at a calendar.
So, an appeal to authority is what you deem as "proof" then?

Some people point at calendars. Some people reform them

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:30 am
by -1-
Skepdick wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:04 am
Logic, you are an incorrigible blubbering dunderhead. Do humanity a favour: do shut up and stay that way.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:31 am
by Skepdick
-1- wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:30 am
Logic, you are an incorrigible blubbering dunderhead. Do humanity a favour: do shut up and stay that way.
I am doing humanity a favour. I am doing science, not philosophy.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:40 am
by -1-
Skepdick wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:31 am
-1- wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:30 am
Logic, you are an incorrigible blubbering dunderhead. Do humanity a favour: do shut up and stay that way.
I am doing humanity a favour. I am doing science, not philosophy.
Well, whatever. Just do it quietly, please. Shhh.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:49 am
by Skepdick
-1- wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:40 am
Well, whatever. Just do it quietly, please. Shhh.
I'll follow philosophy's lead.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:55 pm
by duszek
When I said "unproven assumptions" I wanted to stress one characteristic of them which seemed important to me to point out in this context.

We could try to formulate more precisely:

let´s look for assumptions in sentences or utterances, which are by the way by definition unproven.

There.

Are assumptions something that we take for granted in order to proceed in an argument more swiftly ?

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:59 pm
by Impenitent
duszek wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:55 pm
When I said "unproven assumptions" I wanted to stress one characteristic of them which seemed important to me to point out in this context.

We could try to formulate more precisely:

let´s look for assumptions in sentences or utterances, which are by the way by definition unproven.

There.

Are assumptions something that we take for granted in order to proceed in an argument more swiftly ?
swiftly? no... assumptions hold existence together...

there is no guarantee that future events will even occur or that they will resemble past events...

-Imp

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:53 pm
by Walker
duszek wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:00 pm
Walker

You sound very enigmatic to me.
Don’t you think that enigmatic is more a matter of inference than implication?

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:17 pm
by duszek
Impenitent wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:59 pm

swiftly? no... assumptions hold existence together...

there is no guarantee that future events will even occur or that they will resemble past events...

-Imp
Yes, Mr Imp.
We assume things to be in a certain way in the world.
We make these assumptions in our minds, even if we don´t express them as such.

What I was interested in when I started this topic were assumption as they appear in our written or spoken statements.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:20 pm
by duszek
Walker wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:53 pm
duszek wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:00 pm
Walker

You sound very enigmatic to me.
Don’t you think that enigmatic is more a matter of inference than implication?
Who infers what ?
Who implies what ?

Your statement sounds like an allusion to me, not like a general statement about concepts.

Have I inferred or implied something incorrectly ?

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:23 am
by Impenitent
duszek wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:17 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:59 pm

swiftly? no... assumptions hold existence together...

there is no guarantee that future events will even occur or that they will resemble past events...

-Imp
Yes, Mr Imp.
We assume things to be in a certain way in the world.
We make these assumptions in our minds, even if we don´t express them as such.

What I was interested in when I started this topic were assumption as they appear in our written or spoken statements.
when one uses language, one assumes that the terms one uses have the same meaning for the author as the audience...

-Imp

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:45 am
by Walker
duszek wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:20 pm
Walker wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:53 pm
duszek wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:00 pm
Walker

You sound very enigmatic to me.
Don’t you think that enigmatic is more a matter of inference than implication?
Who infers what ?
Who implies what ?

Your statement sounds like an allusion to me, not like a general statement about concepts.

Have I inferred or implied something incorrectly ?
Inference requires interpretation. Implication requires projection. The interpreted and projected are meanings. These guidelines are the basis for communicating a meaningful answer to the question.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:37 pm
by Eodnhoj7
duszek wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:37 pm
It seems to me that most of what we say if full of unproven assumptions.

The sentence I have just written does not assume anything because of the introduction unit "it seems to me".

The second sentence I have just written does not assume anything either, because it is purely analytical.
Or do you see any assumption in it of any kind ?
Please be as intransigant as Descartes.
Self-negating argument as proof is an unproven assumption.

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:49 am
by Justintruth
duszek wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:37 pm
It seems to me that most of what we say if full of unproven assumptions.

The sentence I have just written does not assume anything because of the introduction unit "it seems to me".

The second sentence I have just written does not assume anything either, because it is purely analytical.
Or do you see any assumption in it of any kind ?
Please be as intransigant as Descartes.
The second sentence assumes that if a sentence has a phrase "it seems to me" prepended on a statement then that sentence does not assume anything.
The second sentence also assumes that the "if" was a spelling error and "is" was meant.

Am I right?

Re: Unproven assumptions

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:49 pm
by duszek
Justintruth wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:49 am
duszek wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:37 pm
It seems to me that most of what we say if full of unproven assumptions.

The sentence I have just written does not assume anything because of the introduction unit "it seems to me".

The second sentence I have just written does not assume anything either, because it is purely analytical.
Or do you see any assumption in it of any kind ?
Please be as intransigant as Descartes.
The second sentence assumes that if a sentence has a phrase "it seems to me" prepended on a statement then that sentence does not assume anything.
The second sentence also assumes that the "if" was a spelling error and "is" was meant.

Am I right?
You are right about the spelling error. But this assumption is safely made because otherwise there is no sense in the sentence at all.

If I start with "it seems to me" then I assume something but only temporarily so this assumption is so weak and wobbly that it is not a serious one.