English is partly Danish (old norse)

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QuantumT
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English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by QuantumT » Sat May 05, 2018 11:18 pm

I think most people in english speaking countries, and others too, would be surprised to learn, how many of the words they consider to be original english, are actually from old norse.
Danish vikings occupied the northeastern parts of England for aprx. 200 years (850-1050), and that rubbed off lingually, on the reluctant hosts.

Some examples:

Are. Birth. Both. Cake. Call. Cast. Clip. Crawl. Die. Egg. Fellow. Flat. Give.

Here are the same words in danish, 1000 years after the occupation:

Er. Byrd. Både. Kage. Kald. Kast. Klip. Kravl. Dø. Æg. Fælle. Flad. Give.

Most computers run on a system named by an old norse word: Windows - Vinduer.

You can see a much more comprehensive list here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_E ... rse_origin

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by gaffo » Sun May 06, 2018 1:50 am

QuantumT wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:18 pm
I think most people in english speaking countries, and others too, would be surprised to learn, how many of the words they consider to be original english, are actually from old norse.
Danish vikings occupied the northeastern parts of England for aprx. 200 years (850-1050), and that rubbed off lingually, on the reluctant hosts.

Some examples:

Are. Birth. Both. Cake. Call. Cast. Clip. Crawl. Die. Egg. Fellow. Flat. Give.

Here are the same words in danish, 1000 years after the occupation:

Er. Byrd. Både. Kage. Kald. Kast. Klip. Kravl. Dø. Æg. Fælle. Flad. Give.

Most computers run on a system named by an old norse word: Windows - Vinduer.

You can see a much more comprehensive list here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_E ... rse_origin
yes, my sis went to scandinavia 25 yrs ago and said that she could "sort of" read road signs. (if only King Harold had won Hastings! - he was wining and would have beat William (and Danish would be even more like English today) in the field...............but in the latter hour of the day he got an "arrow in the eye (head probably?) - died.............and lacking promotion of a sucessor for just such a case, this army fled the field and the upstart William (who's claim to the thrown was adiquate a best BTW) won.

and since Willian won, we have much French in English as well.

most say English is a Germanic (i.e. and so Danish) language, but it is as much French via the Norman conquest.

why most do not affirm my view - no clue - but it is so nonetheless.

modern "english" become "set" (more or less - including the much french wherein) - by 1400.

anything written at/after 1400 (300 yrs after conquest) is readable today (with some effort of course by modern reader).

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by -1- » Sun May 06, 2018 3:27 pm

Almost all basic concepts have two words for them in English, one Latin based via French, one Germanic based.

The Germanic-based words are short, terse, and have bigger emotional punch than the Romantic language based words (I. e. Latin-French words in English.) "I love you" is how you express real love, not by "I adore you" or "I desire you". These latter two may express parts of what makes me feel love for you, but the bulky, robust sense of the concept comes from the Germanic "Lieben".

Almost all prepositions, if not all of them, (with, to, at, up, in, out, through (from durch), while (form wehrend)) come from Germanic roots.

All irregular verbs have Germanic roots. Most monosyllabic words come from Germanic roots.

French-Latin additions are words that express nuances of robust meanings, or else concepts that had been foreign to the speakers of the old Anglo-Saxon language of the English. (Coercion for force, to diminish or deplete for to empty, sacrifice, capitulation and surrender for giving up, rapture, exaltation for joy and bliss, rapturous and delirious for glad and happy, depression, demise, for doom and sadness.

When you want to write to the feelings of your listeners, write in old English words. When you intend to impress your audience's intellect, express yourself via facilitating French-Latin expressions.

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by -1- » Sun May 06, 2018 3:36 pm

Oh, and the English came from Saxonia; hence the expression "Anglo-Saxon". This is a part of Germany, not of Denmark or of Holland. The bulk of the Germanic based words in English are slightly altered forms of the original old German (if there is such a thing) words. Not Dutch or Norse.

The Norse came to England in 1000 I believe? or thereabouts. There was an Anglo-Saxon invasion separate from that that made a much deeper impact of making the modern English language, than the Norse one. The two impressions (A-S and N) likely were not too different from each other.

Actually, please ask Guffo if you want precise facts. I trust Guffo for his knowledge of history, he is interested in knowing the details, not just the general trends like I. I am calling the facts in this post from hazy memories of high school studies, which was over 50 years ago, so you can understand that my recall may not be accurate to the facts.

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by -1- » Sun May 06, 2018 3:42 pm

The reason anyone wants to claim Dutch or Danish roots for the English language is the extreme prejudice (even if it's subconscious) of the English against the Germans.

This was the main cause of Brexit, too. The British realized,that they are not a policy maker or a a shaker-and-mover in and of the European Union; it's Germany and Germany alone who calls the shots, and the British wanted no part of that. They would rather exit the EU than become an economic vassal state of Germany like practically all other European countries have become by now.

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by -1- » Sun May 06, 2018 3:48 pm

The prejudice comes from three sources: 1. not having forgotten the concentration camps of WWII where jews were exterminated. 2. not having forgotten the bombing of England by the German Luftwaffe, and causing civilian deaths. 3. seeing Germany thrive economically, while England is constantly trying to bootstrap itself from its slump.

Add to this the Germany, while staying capitalist in nature, has become more socialist that the UK is now, which UK in all of history used to be the most socially conscious country (until the USSR came into existence). So to see that the Germans make good and rich even with strong social programs, irks the Britons. "Why can they and why can't we?" They bitterly ask themselves.

If anything brings the wrath of other nations against one, it's the good life and prosperity in that one country. This was the reason for the demise of the Roman Empire: peoples around it realized more and more deeply and in more and more wide-spread areas that the Romans have it really good, and this irked and made the other nations jealous, until they decided to run it over and occupy it.

Same thing with Germany. Unless it spreads its wealth and fat, it's going to see trouble again.

If there is one thing people can't stand, it's seeing their peers do much better than they.

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun May 06, 2018 4:41 pm

Let me add three more:

Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday.

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by Impenitent » Sun May 06, 2018 9:41 pm

keglebillard without english is difficult...

-Imp

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun May 06, 2018 10:12 pm

I have often heard that English sounds very similar to German to non English-speakers, only more refined and pleasing to the ear, with the exception being when Americans speak it because they make it sound high-pitched and nasally (which makes sense, because that's the way Americans sound to other English speakers as well).

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun May 06, 2018 11:18 pm

From the movies, certain British have nasal accents. One of the notables is Nigel Bruce who ironically is well known to the audience as Dr. Watson (Sherlock Holmes) whose accent you can cut with a butterknife. Another one (whose name I forget) plays the father of the one getting trained to speak proper English, instead of Cockney, in My Fair Lady.

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun May 06, 2018 11:31 pm

How is that ironic? You can find exceptions to anything if you look hard enough. Some Americans have ok voices too. I'll have to think hard though....
Bruce doesn't have a deep voice, but he certainly didn't talk through his nose.

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun May 06, 2018 11:40 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 11:18 pm
From the movies, certain British have nasal accents. One of the notables is Nigel Bruce who ironically is well known to the audience as Dr. Watson (Sherlock Holmes) whose accent you can cut with a butterknife. Another one (whose name I forget) plays the father of the one getting trained to speak proper English, instead of Cockney, in My Fair Lady.

PhilX 🇺🇸
You would expect a doctor to be well versed in language instead of his nasal mutterings. Sherlock Holmes (Basil Rathbone) in comparison speaks very good English and is a pleasure for me to listen to.

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun May 06, 2018 11:46 pm

You obviously don't know what nasal means.
Kenneth Williams made a career out of it, but I doubt if he spoke like that in his everyday life. He actually speaks very well, but has a sort of deliberate and controlled 'nasal' affectation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7_IWWAlMJg

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Mon May 07, 2018 12:34 am

This definition of nasal is well known to me:

"(of a speech sound) pronounced by the voice resonating in the nose, e.g., m, n, ng."

but not well known to certain others. :)

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Re: English is partly Danish (old norse)

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon May 07, 2018 1:25 am

Nice googling :roll:

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