~ Why I Invented Language ~

What did you say? And what did you mean by it?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:51 pm

Beauty wrote:Lying to deceive others is wrong, lying to defend oneself is not, I believe. However, if a way could be found as to not have to lie at all, that would be the best I believe.
Lying to deceive another and save a life is good. Lying to defend oneself to kill another is wrong.

creativesoul
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by creativesoul » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:52 am

The OP is working from a false presupposition. Every example of lying involves a deliberate misrepresentation of what the speaker thinks/believes. Doing that requires language. Since it is the case that lying requires language, it cannot be the case that language was invented as a means to lie.

That's more than enough to effectively dismiss what the OP claims.

:wink:

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:07 am

creativesoul wrote:The OP is working from a false presupposition. Every example of lying involves a deliberate misrepresentation of what the speaker thinks/believes. Doing that requires language. Since it is the case that lying requires language, it cannot be the case that language was invented as a means to lie.
Actually lying does not have to involve spoken langauge. Chimps are masters of deceit.

creativesoul
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by creativesoul » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:25 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
creativesoul wrote:The OP is working from a false presupposition. Every example of lying involves a deliberate misrepresentation of what the speaker thinks/believes. Doing that requires language. Since it is the case that lying requires language, it cannot be the case that language was invented as a means to lie.
Actually lying does not have to involve spoken langauge. Chimps are masters of deceit.
I wouldn't equate deceitfulness with lying.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:59 am

.







Think I see where our paths diverge...I consider ANY thought; ANY spoken word to be an estrangement of reality.

Thus, we lie whenever we speak.


Human beings cannot tell the truth.


You believe, that lying is a deliberate act.

...so like, it's not a lie if you believe it.


Pretty fucked-up.








.

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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Arising_uk » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:13 am

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Think I see where our paths diverge...I consider ANY thought; ANY spoken word to be an estrangement of reality.

Thus, we lie whenever we speak.
Is this a lie?
Human beings cannot tell the truth.
And this?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:38 am

.





Yes. They are ALL lies...


...kind-a just went over that.









.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:42 am

creativesoul wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
creativesoul wrote:The OP is working from a false presupposition. Every example of lying involves a deliberate misrepresentation of what the speaker thinks/believes. Doing that requires language. Since it is the case that lying requires language, it cannot be the case that language was invented as a means to lie.
Actually lying does not have to involve spoken langauge. Chimps are masters of deceit.
I wouldn't equate deceitfulness with lying.
Odd because every person I've ever met would associate the two and assert that lying entails deceit.
Indicating that deceit predates formal language. So the idea that lying post dates language is not a great argument against the rather more idiotic asserting that the raison d'etre of language was lying, which proposition is without evidence or merit on its own terms.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:53 am

.




So, it's not a lie unless you say it's a lie...


...pretty fucked-up...






.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:28 am

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.

So, it's not a lie unless you say it's a lie...


...pretty fucked-up...



.
I think you might want to brush up on your comprehension skills billy boy.

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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Arising_uk » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:19 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.Yes. They are ALL lies...

...kind-a just went over that.
.
So this is a lie then?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:47 pm

.





YES. As my definition!

All words; ALL thoughts are an estrangement of reality. [presses lips, squints eyes, breathes out...]







.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:50 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.





YES. As my definition!

All words; ALL thoughts are an estrangement of reality. [presses lips, squints eyes, breathes out...]


.
.... and FARTS.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:18 pm

.





............................................
Been referring to them as a hobbe choice.





.

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Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~

Post by Arising_uk » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:25 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.YES. As my definition!

All words; ALL thoughts are an estrangement of reality. [presses lips, squints eyes, breathes out...]
.
So you're lying about this then?

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