Give me your LotR questions

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

promethean75 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:01 pm it's because the ironic use of the word 'literally' is not intentional in the speaker, while the ZZ Top reference is (most likely). dude prolly isn't growing a beard on purpose to effect that irony.

so to taxi, the ironic use of the word 'literally' is arbitrary at best and indicative of illiteracy in the speaker who uses it that way, at worst.

that's actually right tho. nobody says 'dude I literally, etc.' with some intent to be ironic. it's just some superfluous idiom that developed as a way to assist or enhance the exclamatory value and force of an utterance. and really only if whatever they did 'literally' was something rare and unusual, would the use of the word 'literally' be appropriate... as in 'no dude, for real, i literally jumped out the window and landed in the car seat (a convertible with the top down).

Other than that, you wouldn't say 'i 'literally' got up and got a Pepsi' because I wouldn't doubt that you did. That's nothing unusual. You don't need to signify that you REALLY got up and got a Pepsi.
I see what you mean. I thought you meant the intention was to be 'ironic' simply by using the wrong word. Still, it's hardly irony. Ironic would be if they were claiming to be concerned about illiteracy and then said 'My head is LITERALLY exploding over this'.

Another irony. All those American relgious leaders who preached that covid was a hoax and advised against vaccination who then went on to die of covid.

An interesting one from Wiki. ''When John Hinckley attempted to assassinate Ronald Reagan, all of his shots initially missed the President; however, a bullet ricocheted off the bullet-proof Presidential limousine and struck Reagan in the chest. Thus, a vehicle made to protect the President from gunfire instead directed gunfire to the president.''
promethean75
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by promethean75 »

Ew I got one: Christopher Reeves, the man of steel, get's thrown from a horse and paralyzed from the head down.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Iwannaplato »

Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:23 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:05 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:02 pm Stop trying to justify illiteracy astro cat
'Stop' orginally meant to block an aperture. You're not telling her to shut up, are you?
You'll have to read a couple posts up to see the context of what I was saying. Despite appearances, I'm not literally telling her to stop anything
I did wonder a bit if I was taking your post too literally. I had read one before. And, hey, I was joking and am glad to hear what you said.
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Iwannaplato »

Astro Cat wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:09 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:59 pm
Astro Cat wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:52 am The whole “literally ironically being used to mean figuratively” thing is definitely from my generation. I use it that way all the time.
I think you need to give these guys an example. It seems, though it's no easy to tell, that some think that really you just use it incorrectly and then are calling it ironic. That's more my generation.

I find it funny that people can get so angry about semantic change. I mean, I sympathize. I hate some changes, especially business type speak that seeps out. But I don't hate changes because they are changes. I have aesthetic issues with specific changes.
When I say something like I will literally die if I don’t get a drink of water soon, the intention is knowingly ironic. “Literally” with this use is very common in millennials and we’re well aware of it (judging from the amount of memes poking fun at it). I’m sure there are some that don’t know it’s ironic, maybe
I believed you. Good example. I think it is interesting that in my generation it was said a lot, unknowingly, and then later a generation with a different temperment found a way to consciously make what is now merely an 'error'. And then that the word, via error and 'error' is in transition.
Of course, the only way I can connect any of this to Tolkien is he just went ahead and made up his own languages.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

I'd always heard that Amercians don't understand irony. Perhaps it's just 'most people'. Alanis Morissette's song 'Ironic' IRONICALLY doesn't have a single example of irony in it :lol:
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Sculptor
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Sculptor »

Astro Cat wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:35 am I'm all pumped up for Rings of Power. If I haven't said so before, I'm a massive Tolkienite.

One thing that's annoyed me a lot recently about RoP is that a lot of people have mistaken notions about aspects of it being explicitly against canon which aren't actually against canon, so I find myself talking about it a lot on random social media pages.

If you have canonicity misgivings about the show, give 'em to me and I'll go through them and see whether they hold any weight or not.

Otherwise just hit me with your Middle Earth questions, I guess!

(Can you tell that I'm bored at work?)
Since the utter butchery of The Hobbit I do not hold out much hope for the latest ME series.
LORTs was a well made trilogy of films, but despite that the existence of the films has forever ruined reading the books again.
I am just so happy that I am old enough to have read them several times before the films came out.
I tried to read them since but the images are now coloured with the film scenes and actors.
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attofishpi
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by attofishpi »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:39 pm I'd always heard that Amercians don't understand irony. Perhaps it's just 'most people'. Alanis Morissette's song 'Ironic' IRONICALLY doesn't have a single example of irony in it :lol:
..and isn't it ironic that it's such a good song. 8)
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Iwannaplato »

attofishpi wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:10 am ..and isn't it ironic that it's such a good song. 8)
There are three types of irony: verbal, dramatic and situational. There is situational irony in the song. I found the song disappointing, though I like her music, or perhaps it's better to say her voice.

I'm most fond of verbal irony. Situational is just so O'Henry short story.
Dramatic irony can be great in films...Hitchcock's explanation of suspense and the bomb in the suitcase beneath the table is a version of this.

But sifting through verbal irony, like say in a Jane Austen novel...
The sisters, on hearing this, repeated three or four times how much they were grieved, how shocking it was to have a bad cold, and how excessively they disliked being ill themselves; and then thought no more of the matter.
Though many examples have less easy unpacking then this one.

I suppose I even prefer unstable irony to stable irony. Where you know something is off and the words cannot be taken straight, but exactly what is meant or really going on is obscure.
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Iwannaplato »

I just saw a funny example of the use of 'literally.'

A woman said 'I am literally moving out of state.'

Now perhaps there is some regional, common metaphor - she had a US Southern accent - where people say things like 'Man, my wife and I haven't been getting along at all, I'm moving out of state.' And this is a metaphor which means something like 'not feeling close' or 'I am giving up.'

But I doubt it.

But here it can't be an intensifier. She didn't mean she is moving out of state with gusto. Or moving to Japan.

I think she meant something like 'actually'.

In any case there was no irony intended. It's not a trope. And it's not a necessary word in the sentence. But she is literally moving out of the state.
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Sculptor »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:06 am I just saw a funny example of the use of 'literally.'

A woman said 'I am literally moving out of state.'

Now perhaps there is some regional, common metaphor - she had a US Southern accent - where people say things like 'Man, my wife and I haven't been getting along at all, I'm moving out of state.' And this is a metaphor which means something like 'not feeling close' or 'I am giving up.'

But I doubt it.

But here it can't be an intensifier. She didn't mean she is moving out of state with gusto. Or moving to Japan.

I think she meant something like 'actually'.

In any case there was no irony intended. It's not a trope. And it's not a necessary word in the sentence. But she is literally moving out of the state.
It looks like literally (as in out of state) is a redundancy. Since there is no metaphor such as "I was so pissed it made me move outta state!", she was really just moving out of state.

I hate it when people use "literally" wrong.
It literally makes my blood boil!!
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Astro Cat »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:25 pm I hate it when people use "literally" wrong.
It literally makes my blood boil!!
LOL. Makes me think of another line from that Futurama episode where Professor Farnsworth is yelling at the play, "You can't just say how you feel. That makes me angry!"
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Sculptor »

Astro Cat wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:05 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:25 pm I hate it when people use "literally" wrong.
It literally makes my blood boil!!
LOL. Makes me think of another line from that Futurama episode where Professor Farnsworth is yelling at the play, "You can't just say how you feel. That makes me angry!"
Yeah. Along the lines of: "I AM NOT SHOUTING!!!!!!"
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Iwannaplato »

If my magical staff was working well, I would do the following: make up a smaller story within Middle-earth. Not use hobbits as the center. All the types of hominids are present in the world. So, it could be two elves who dead out somewhere and have and adventure and encounter creatures that we know are there in Middle Earth. Whatever. Keep the scope small - no final defeats of Sauron, all living forms in danger plots. And even less scope than the Hobbit plot. Action, sure. Characters, especially. Fear, anger, trials and the rest, yes. No basis for the story in any Tolkien book, except the story holds true to Middle Earth as already presented.
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Iwannaplato »

Astro Cat wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:05 am LOL. Makes me think of another line from that Futurama episode where Professor Farnsworth is yelling at the play, "You can't just say how you feel. That makes me angry!"
Some contemporary irony...
https://fb.watch/eIz6Y9txFe/
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Re: Give me your LotR questions

Post by Astro Cat »

The One Ring has me like

Image

I'd like to quit my job and quit school and just do LotR things please and thanks.
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