Veganism.

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Skip
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Skip »

I do not take evolutionary advice from the Mayo clinic.
Just as well, since they're in the business of medical advice.
Nothing to do with Veganism so utterly irrelevant
Obviously! What possible bearing could the available food supply divided by the human population have on human diet?
Walker
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Walker »

"... putting evil into that world ..."

That's not only a judgment, it's a rather profound judgment.
It's one of those black and white judgments.
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Sculptor
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Sculptor »

Skip wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 pm
I do not take evolutionary advice from the Mayo clinic.
Just as well, since they're in the business of medical advice.
Nothing to do with Veganism so utterly irrelevant
Obviously! What possible bearing could the available food supply divided by the human population have on human diet?
Are you aware of the massive difference between veganism and vegetarianism?
Vegetarianism is far closer in dietary content than Veganism, since eggs, milk and cheese (all available to vegetarians) contain all the essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins and minerals needed by humans but Veganism is dangerously deficient.
Am I going to fast for you?
Walker
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Walker »

Skip wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:25 am It's been a while since I visited here. Maybe too long to answer this question. But I'll try.
Other animals fit snugly, perfectly and permanently into the world that they live in - whether they like it or not.
We humans don't. We have too much imagination too much power and too many choices for a simple fit. We see ourselves and the world in various ways, and we are to remake our world(s), both conceptually and physically.
For two of us atheist white-collar workers with pretty good educations, and an inclination to compassion and tolerance, the vegetarian route was more or less the inevitable one. When you understand that every other creature with a heart-beat is very much like you, you can't help knowing that they all feel the same fear and hope, anger and joy that you do. When you believe that putting good into the world is preferable (for your own welfare and integrity, as well as the environment in which you live) to putting evil into that world, you figure out ways to reduce the harm you inflict on other life-forms. It just all works better that way.
Let’s put it this way. Your assertion through reasoning that taking life for food contributes to the evil in the world, is proven erroneous by the fact that taking life for food and materials is incorporated within the meaning of Buddhism, and Buddhism does not intend evil.
Flannel Jesus
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Flannel Jesus »

Walker wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:23 pm
Skip wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:25 am It's been a while since I visited here. Maybe too long to answer this question. But I'll try.
Other animals fit snugly, perfectly and permanently into the world that they live in - whether they like it or not.
We humans don't. We have too much imagination too much power and too many choices for a simple fit. We see ourselves and the world in various ways, and we are to remake our world(s), both conceptually and physically.
For two of us atheist white-collar workers with pretty good educations, and an inclination to compassion and tolerance, the vegetarian route was more or less the inevitable one. When you understand that every other creature with a heart-beat is very much like you, you can't help knowing that they all feel the same fear and hope, anger and joy that you do. When you believe that putting good into the world is preferable (for your own welfare and integrity, as well as the environment in which you live) to putting evil into that world, you figure out ways to reduce the harm you inflict on other life-forms. It just all works better that way.
Let’s put it this way. Your assertion through reasoning that taking life for food contributes to the evil in the world, is proven erroneous by the fact that taking life for food and materials is incorporated within the meaning of Buddhism, and Buddhism does not intend evil.
Is this a real argument? It's not evil because Buddhists don't consider it evil? Since when did Buddhism become the universally accepted standard for all morality?
Belinda
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Belinda »

I find it easier to become more vegetarian in stages, rather than all at once. I cook vegetable food such as risotto or dal with a really good umami taste. It's easy to have oat milk instead of animal milk and olive oil instead of butter. Gradually you can get into the habit of not particularly wanting to eat animals' muscles and internal organs.

It's obvious we must all eat very small amounts of animal products. It is a matter of fact not ethics.
Skip
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Skip »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:16 pm Are you aware of the massive difference between veganism and vegetarianism?
Yes.
Am I going to fast for you?
No.
Skip
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Skip »

Walker wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:06 pm "... putting evil into that world ..."

That's not only a judgment, it's a rather profound judgment.
It's one of those black and white judgments.
It is neither. It is a single phrase from the middle of a sentence.
Skip
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Skip »

Walker wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:23 pm Let’s put it this way. Your assertion through reasoning that taking life for food contributes to the evil in the world,
I didn't assert that. However, I will assert that pain is bad for most life-forms and agree that I consider causing pain, especially when I don't need to (but just like the taste of bacon) would constitute putting evil into the world. I am further aware of the practices in factory farming and industrial butchering, which are the sources of most western countries' sources of commercial meat. They cause a very great deal of pain. I prefer to minimize my contribution.
is proven erroneous by the fact that taking life for food and materials is incorporated within the meaning of Buddhism, and Buddhism does not intend evil.
and I don't give a flying about any buddhas.
Skip
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Skip »

Belinda wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:16 pm I find it easier to become more vegetarian in stages, rather than all at once.
Of course. Any conscious change is both easier and more effective to achieve in planned increments.
I cook vegetable food such as risotto or dal with a really good umami taste.
You also learn as you go. People have been down this road before. They wrote books and posted recipes. The learning and experimenting is part of the fun of making a change - and it adds to our appreciation of food, as well as culture. Who says any half-assed attempt to save the world and your soul shouldn't also be fun?
It's easy to have oat milk instead of animal milk and olive oil instead of butter.
Modern science makes a whole lot of things easy. Why should it not help us be kinder to our planet without sacrificing our health and happiness?
Gradually you can get into the habit of not particularly wanting to eat animals' muscles and internal organs.
There comes a time when they actually repulse you. (They really are rather icky, close up.)
It's obvious we must all eat very small amounts of animal products. It is a matter of fact not ethics.
Which can be obtained with a minimum of cruelty.
Walker
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Walker »

Skip wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:41 am
Walker wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:23 pm Let’s put it this way. Your assertion through reasoning that taking life for food contributes to the evil in the world,
I didn't assert that. However, I will assert that pain is bad for most life-forms and agree that I consider causing pain, especially when I don't need to (but just like the taste of bacon) would constitute putting evil into the world. I am further aware of the practices in factory farming and industrial butchering, which are the sources of most western countries' sources of commercial meat. They cause a very great deal of pain. I prefer to minimize my contribution.
is proven erroneous by the fact that taking life for food and materials is incorporated within the meaning of Buddhism, and Buddhism does not intend evil.
and I don't give a flying about any buddhas.
Recently I watched this series on Netflix called Alone. It’s about survivalists doing their thing. They could have called the series Alone and Hungry. Alone was the situation but hunger was the theme. Every once in awhile one of them would kill an animal for food. What was noticeable was the profound thanks that these people expressed to the animal they had killed. They would thank the animal for its life, and they would sometimes use those very words. With the focus on the transfer of life from the animal to them, rather than the focus of life ending in a cruel death, it’s obvious that killing the animal had no intent of cruelty. This is interesting because for folks who don’t get involved with killing their own food, which is a lot of people, killing and cruelty get linked together by imagination of what it must be like for the animal at the last moment of their time. Lots of things get linked in the imagination, but the unknown experience never before experienced cannot be imagined with certainty. To the witness, the killing of the animal for food may seem cruel. To the victim? Who knows. The presence of certain death just may obliterate any sense of cruelty when time runs out.
Walker
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Walker »

Belinda wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:16 pm I find it easier to become more vegetarian in stages, rather than all at once. I cook vegetable food such as risotto or dal with a really good umami taste. It's easy to have oat milk instead of animal milk and olive oil instead of butter. Gradually you can get into the habit of not particularly wanting to eat animals' muscles and internal organs.

It's obvious we must all eat very small amounts of animal products. It is a matter of fact not ethics.
Okinawans eat a lot of fish protein and are among the most long-lived.
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Harbal
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Harbal »

Walker wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:19 am
Okinawans eat a lot of fish protein and are among the most long-lived.
If they only eat the protein, what do the Okinawans do with the rest of the fish?
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Sculptor
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Re: Veganism.

Post by Sculptor »

Skip wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:33 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:16 pm Are you aware of the massive difference between veganism and vegetarianism?
Yes.
Am I going to fast for you?
No.

Then why are you so confused?
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henry quirk
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Re: Veganism.

Post by henry quirk »

EAT MEAT
3DAAFE27-C65C-4455-975F-A7B1F8CE83A0.png
3DAAFE27-C65C-4455-975F-A7B1F8CE83A0.png (248.59 KiB) Viewed 1178 times
IT'S GOOD FOR YOU
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