American election.

General chit-chat

Moderators: AMod, iMod

gaffo
Posts: 3671
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: American election.

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:57 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:01 pmNo election counts were performed without the supervision of election officials.
Interesting.

From where I'm watching, I've already seen confirmed cases of mail personnel dumping ballots, of signatures not matching on write-ins, of dead people being counted as voters, of people voting more than once, and of election scrutineers being prevented from seeing what was going on by being forced to be too far from counts to be able to see the ballots. What's that all about?

It seems to me you guys need an impartial system. And everybody would benefit it you had one. But I can't figure out how the world's allegedly "leading" democracy has allowed its electoral system to become such an embarrassment in the first place. And it really is a circus, obviously.

Our votes take 24 hours. What's wrong with you guys?
IMG, maybe i got my wires crossed yand you are the koolaid/brasinstem and not commonsence?

say ity aint so.
commonsense
Posts: 3103
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: American election.

Post by commonsense »

gaffo wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:03 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:57 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:01 pmNo election counts were performed without the supervision of election officials.
Interesting.

From where I'm watching, I've already seen confirmed cases of mail personnel dumping ballots, of signatures not matching on write-ins, of dead people being counted as voters, of people voting more than once, and of election scrutineers being prevented from seeing what was going on by being forced to be too far from counts to be able to see the ballots. What's that all about?

It seems to me you guys need an impartial system. And everybody would benefit it you had one. But I can't figure out how the world's allegedly "leading" democracy has allowed its electoral system to become such an embarrassment in the first place. And it really is a circus, obviously.

Our votes take 24 hours. What's wrong with you guys?
IMG, maybe i got my wires crossed yand you are the koolaid/brasinstem and not commonsence?

say ity aint so.
BTW: Chump’s observers were not bona fide officials and had to be prevented from interfering with the actual election officials.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10466
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:32 pm BTW: Chump’s observers were not bona fide officials and had to be prevented from interfering with the actual election officials.
Interesting note: we're going to find out if that's so. Looks like the whole thing is going to court.
Walker
Posts: 7956
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: American election.

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:31 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:32 pm BTW: Chump’s observers were not bona fide officials and had to be prevented from interfering with the actual election officials.
Interesting note: we're going to find out if that's so. Looks like the whole thing is going to court.
You asked how the election process got so screwed up. Since the last election the Democrats have flooded the local and state governments with over 300 lawsuits in order to change the election process. Can’t have folks voting in person anymore because of the Black Death, although plenty did vote in person. Never let a crisis go to waste, they say, and don’t be constrained by the limitations of fairness, morality, decency, or the constitution. Those get in the way of any means necessary.

Latest full press conference with Trump’s attorneys. Kracken talk, by cracky. Listen before it vanishes. Apparently it was unsuitable for live broadcast so watch for a chewing up into short, creative edits. 2 hours, not suitable for instant gratification or the disinterested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq7TeUJwQD4
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10466
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Walker wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:18 pm You asked how the election process got so screwed up. Since the last election the Democrats have flooded the local and state governments with over 300 lawsuits in order to change the election process.
Really?

Well, then, it's time for a standard, one-day, in-person, ID-mandatory universal American voting system, I say. C'mon...they're the world's leading democracy...if they can't lead the way, and their system is corrupt, then who's going to lead?

And in the meanwhile, I wouldn't "declare" this election until a thorough audit of the votes had been conducted by the judiciary....no matter how long that takes.
Walker
Posts: 7956
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: American election.

Post by Walker »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:32 pm
gaffo wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:03 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:57 pm
Interesting.

From where I'm watching, I've already seen confirmed cases of mail personnel dumping ballots, of signatures not matching on write-ins, of dead people being counted as voters, of people voting more than once, and of election scrutineers being prevented from seeing what was going on by being forced to be too far from counts to be able to see the ballots. What's that all about?

It seems to me you guys need an impartial system. And everybody would benefit it you had one. But I can't figure out how the world's allegedly "leading" democracy has allowed its electoral system to become such an embarrassment in the first place. And it really is a circus, obviously.

Our votes take 24 hours. What's wrong with you guys?
IMG, maybe i got my wires crossed yand you are the koolaid/brasinstem and not commonsence?

say ity aint so.
BTW: Chump’s observers were not bona fide officials and had to be prevented from interfering with the actual election officials.
Hey gaffo. Here’s another good one. Now, I heard it through the grapevine not much longer would you be … no wait, what I heard was that when observers legally protested that they were separated up to eighty yards away from the counters in Pennsylvania, and nowhere close to six feet, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that the law doesn’t specify distance from the counting, it only says that observers be allowed in the room. In other words, the law was interpreted to mean that whether or not the observers can observe the counting does not pertain to the voting law. That’s what I heard. Such is the swamp. When you think of the swamp think of quicksand movies, the bad guy slowly sucked under like a dinosaur in the tar pits, the good guy getting out at the last second with the help of a branch, or an elephant in Tarzan’s situation.
Nick_A
Posts: 5518
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: American election.

Post by Nick_A »

The goal of socialism and the elimination of liberty isn't the betterment of the human condition but in acquiring power. Trump's defense of liberty was the one thing to oppose the take over by power.

There is noting compassionate about those pursuing power to control. Its goal is creating psychological slaves, atoms of the great beast, to further its whims. George Orwell understood it.
“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”
― George Orwell, 1984
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10466
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Nick_A wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:03 am George Orwell understood it.
“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”
― George Orwell, 1984
The guy was somewhat of a prophet.
Walker
Posts: 7956
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: American election.

Post by Walker »

On second thought, check out the segment with Attorney Jenna Ellis. Wow.

8 minutes of rationality.

- 40:00
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... o-victory/
Belinda
Posts: 4583
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: American election.

Post by Belinda »

Nick_A wrote:
The goal of socialism and the elimination of liberty isn't the betterment of the human condition but in acquiring power. Trump's defense of liberty was the one thing to oppose the take over by power.
That is a lie. Somebody had told you a lie.

Socialists seek a viable society which includes all the people. I don't seek 'power'. All socialists don't seek power. Jesus did not seek 'power'.

Same as 'liberty', 'socialism' can be hi-jacked by power seekers.
Nick_A
Posts: 5518
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: American election.

Post by Nick_A »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:59 am
Nick_A wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:03 am George Orwell understood it.
“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”
― George Orwell, 1984
The guy was somewhat of a prophet.
He was. He seems to have had the conscious ability to experience the reality of "today." When we consciously experience the present we will know tomorrow since tomorrow is the result of today. What is it about the human organism that prevents us from consciously experiencing the present? Since we apparently cannot, the results of the hypocrisy of the human condition remain the same and everything repeats.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 10466
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Nick_A wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:00 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:59 am
Nick_A wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:03 am George Orwell understood it.
The guy was somewhat of a prophet.
He was. He seems to have had the conscious ability to experience the reality of "today."
Well, he saw the post-war trends -- the propaganda and lies, the Socialism, the polarization, the hubris, the totalitarian regimes, the blind technophilia, the insanity that is globalism, and the susceptibility of the public, and he projected the directions they would take us. He thought they'd be faster than they turned out to be...1984 was a long while ago now...but he was not wrong about the direction or the kinds of rationales that would pull us all in that direction.

Today is really becoming 1984 very quickly, it seems. And the so-called "Great Reset" is just about the whole package of that. Too bad we're not heeding Orwell's warning.
Nick_A
Posts: 5518
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: American election.

Post by Nick_A »

Belinda wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:48 am Nick_A wrote:
The goal of socialism and the elimination of liberty isn't the betterment of the human condition but in acquiring power. Trump's defense of liberty was the one thing to oppose the take over by power.
That is a lie. Somebody had told you a lie.

Socialists seek a viable society which includes all the people. I don't seek 'power'. All socialists don't seek power. Jesus did not seek 'power'.

Same as 'liberty', 'socialism' can be hi-jacked by power seekers.
The young have dreams of the world being built on socialist principles. As we mature we realize that it doesn't happen and the world in reality is governed by the struggle for prestige. The intellectual and financial elite are considered to have prestige in the world and prestige is acquired through the illusion of power.

Simone Weil wrote that: "the future is made of the same stuff as the present." It seems that the human condition doesn't allow us to consciously experience the present. Without it, tyranny becomes essential for establishing order. Slavery through equality. Not a pleasant perspective.
Belinda
Posts: 4583
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: American election.

Post by Belinda »

Nick_A wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:22 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:48 am Nick_A wrote:
The goal of socialism and the elimination of liberty isn't the betterment of the human condition but in acquiring power. Trump's defense of liberty was the one thing to oppose the take over by power.
That is a lie. Somebody had told you a lie.

Socialists seek a viable society which includes all the people. I don't seek 'power'. All socialists don't seek power. Jesus did not seek 'power'.

Same as 'liberty', 'socialism' can be hi-jacked by power seekers.
The young have dreams of the world being built on socialist principles. As we mature we realize that it doesn't happen and the world in reality is governed by the struggle for prestige. The intellectual and financial elite are considered to have prestige in the world and prestige is acquired through the illusion of power.

Simone Weil wrote that: "the future is made of the same stuff as the present." It seems that the human condition doesn't allow us to consciously experience the present. Without it, tyranny becomes essential for establishing order. Slavery through equality. Not a pleasant perspective.
No, Nick, I am not young and my socialist friends are middle aged, settled people who pay their taxes and care about their families. Just ordinary working people who are perhaps a little better informed than you.
Nick_A
Posts: 5518
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: American election.

Post by Nick_A »

Belinda wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:42 pm
Nick_A wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:22 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:48 am Nick_A wrote:



That is a lie. Somebody had told you a lie.

Socialists seek a viable society which includes all the people. I don't seek 'power'. All socialists don't seek power. Jesus did not seek 'power'.

Same as 'liberty', 'socialism' can be hi-jacked by power seekers.
The young have dreams of the world being built on socialist principles. As we mature we realize that it doesn't happen and the world in reality is governed by the struggle for prestige. The intellectual and financial elite are considered to have prestige in the world and prestige is acquired through the illusion of power.

Simone Weil wrote that: "the future is made of the same stuff as the present." It seems that the human condition doesn't allow us to consciously experience the present. Without it, tyranny becomes essential for establishing order. Slavery through equality. Not a pleasant perspective.
No, Nick, I am not young and my socialist friends are middle aged, settled people who pay their taxes and care about their families. Just ordinary working people who are perhaps a little better informed than you.
I didn't mean to suggest that only the young are attracted to socialist ideas but that is where it begins with good intentions. However Lenin did coin the term "useful idiots" who were followers of communism and they include all ages.

What creates useful idiots? George Santayana described our situation:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

If we don't consciously experience the past, we can't remember it. This includes futile attempts at socialism. If we don't remember why it fails, we are destined to repeat it.

You are idealistic and I am also idealistic. I've learned that idealism can only refer to individuals. Societies are incapable of it. Its being prevents it and must continue to reflect the collective hypocrisy of the human condition.
Post Reply