American election.

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Gary Childress
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Re: American election.

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:38 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:27 pm ...in comparative terms of the day Athens was much more cosmopolitan than Sparta.
But the comparison is very poor, Gary. We might say that Cuba is more "free" than Venezuela right now; it certainly doesn't mean that either is actually free. If you want to make a comparison, you need to pick something that's actually admirable and practical for today.

Athens was an elitist state and a slave state. Sparta was a really elitist, really militant, really nasty slave state. I don't think we're smart to be admiring either. And neither is a good pattern for the modern state.
OK. If it makes you feel better, I'd rather live in New York City, than rural Pennsylvania.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:47 pm OK. If it makes you feel better, I'd rather live in New York City, than rural Pennsylvania.
You like COVID that much? :shock:

I think we can all see that NYC is on its way down. People who can afford to are getting out of that town, because they now see what happens when an emergency hits. Where they're moving to is places like rural Pennsylvania.

Will there be an NYC in a few years? Maybe. But it will certainly never quite look like it has in the past. I'm not sure we know right now what that's going to be like. Rural Pennsylvania's looking better by the day.
Gary Childress
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Re: American election.

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:25 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:47 pm OK. If it makes you feel better, I'd rather live in New York City, than rural Pennsylvania.
You like COVID that much? :shock:
Please...If you like rural Pennsylvania in terms of culture, that's your preference. I won't knock it. I'm just saying I prefer a more cosmopolitan culture where there is less distrust of "foreigners" or outsiders and more diversity.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:33 pm I'm just saying I prefer a more cosmopolitan culture where there is less distrust of "foreigners" or outsiders and more diversity.
Well, that wasn't Athens, for sure. As for NYC, its time is probably done. And it never saw the end coming.
Gary Childress
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Re: American election.

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:39 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:33 pm I'm just saying I prefer a more cosmopolitan culture where there is less distrust of "foreigners" or outsiders and more diversity.
Well, that wasn't Athens, for sure.
Compared to Sparta, for the time period, it was.
As for NYC, its time is probably done. And it never saw the end coming.
The end of NYC? Really? How so? In any case, I would hope not, for every American's sake. Just think if the whole country were like rural Pennsylvania? Although I suppose you shouldn't really care because you don't live in this country.
tillingborn
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Re: American election.

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:22 pm
tillingborn wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:45 am That is an eloquent way of conveying the point that any conclusion about which candidate to vote for usually is, and should be, based on policy.
It's pretty fair to say that this last election had nothing to do with policy. The campaign was run on personalities, mostly ginning up personal antipathy.

What were Biden's allegedly popular "policies" by the way? Could you even say?
I haven't alleged that any of Joe Biden's policies are popular, but having already stated the obvious fact that there are different sides to every issue, I think one must be blinded by personality not to appreciate that Trump and Biden make very different offers on issues such as Covid, health insurance, immigration, fossil fuel, student debt, abortion, gun control.
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:22 pm
As someone who has urged that the "real factual gold" on a laptop should override voters' political wishes,
Whoa, partner. Nobody knows what "voters political wishes" actually were, because the election was rigged. You know it was, because of the abundant statistical anomalies. Are you going to tell me that as a candidate, Joe Biden was far more popular than Obama? Are you going to say that Joe Biden was, in fact, so popular that he was the only president to lose most of the bellwethers and still become president? This senile man, who campaigned from his basement, you're going to tell me was actually the most beloved presidential candidate in modern history?

Meanwhile, straw man, chum. Nobody said anything should "override" voter wishes. What I said was that voters did not get to find out what they'd actually "wish," because they were denied the information they needed by the MSM. There's a whole lot of difference.

But I can see you're uninterested in what the truth is there, so I'll leave it.
I really don't see how access to a low resolution photograph of Hunter Biden, seemingly with a crack pipe on his pillow, would change anybody's wishes with regard to the sort of issues listed above.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:48 pm The end of NYC? Really? How so?
I don't know where you live, but unless it's way out in the boonies, you know that people are fleeing densely packed cities. And not just private citizens; businesses are also realizing that lockdowns are immeasurably worse in big cities, and moving out to the suburbs and beyond. And now Wall Street is quietly pulling out of Wall Street, because of the reduction of crime prevention in the core. NYC Is hollowing out at the centre again. And obviously, the real estate in densely populated areas is becoming suddenly much less desirable for everyone.

If this continues, NYC will shortly be the world's biggest city "donut," with nothing at the centre but misery, poverty and crime. COVID bears some responsibility; Cuomo bears the rest. But it is what it is.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

tillingborn wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:49 pm I haven't alleged that any of Joe Biden's policies are popular,
I'll bet you don't even know what they are. You'd have to go and look them up...and you'd have a hard time finding anything.
I really don't see how access to a low resolution photograph of Hunter Biden, seemingly with a crack pipe on his pillow, would change anybody's wishes with regard to the sort of issues listed above.
It's not the crack pipe, although one has to wonder how evil a person is, if they are using their drug-addled son as an agent, when what he needs is rehab. The really serious issue is not HB's drug habit: it's his repeated references to "the big guy" -- somebody he controls access to, and somebody who takes a sizeable cut of his fee for providing access.

Who would you guess Hunter Biden might plausibly mean? List the people you think he could be referring to.
Gary Childress
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Re: American election.

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:56 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:48 pm The end of NYC? Really? How so?
I don't know where you live, but unless it's way out in the boonies, you know that people are fleeing densely packed cities. And not just private citizens; businesses are also realizing that lockdowns are immeasurably worse in big cities, and moving out to the suburbs and beyond. And now Wall Street is quietly pulling out of Wall Street, because of the reduction of crime prevention in the core. NYC Is hollowing out at the centre again. And obviously, the real estate in densely populated areas is becoming suddenly much less desirable for everyone.

If this continues, NYC will shortly be the world's biggest city "donut," with nothing at the centre but misery, poverty and crime. COVID bears some responsibility; Cuomo bears the rest. But it is what it is.
I used to live in the Metropolitan D.C. area years ago. These days I live near the edge where the "the boonies" meeting civilization, though. I miss city life but moved with my parents when they retired to Florida.

You could be right about major cities emptying out. It used to be all the best employment opportunities and consumer goods were in the city, however, these days you can work from home and order just about any exotic thing on Amazon.
odysseus
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Re: American election.

Post by odysseus »

Immanuel Can wrote
I don't know where you live, but unless it's way out in the boonies, you know that people are fleeing densely packed cities. And not just private citizens; businesses are also realizing that lockdowns are immeasurably worse in big cities, and moving out to the suburbs and beyond. And now Wall Street is quietly pulling out of Wall Street, because of the reduction of crime prevention in the core. NYC Is hollowing out at the centre again. And obviously, the real estate in densely populated areas is becoming suddenly much less desirable for everyone.

If this continues, NYC will shortly be the world's biggest city "donut," with nothing at the centre but misery, poverty and crime. COVID bears some responsibility; Cuomo bears the rest. But it is what it is.
What covid has done is accelerate what I like to call "liberal gentrification" of the boonies, where real estate is cheap, property taxes are low. this is one reason why you see Virginia turn blue: right next to Washington DC, and now much of it a virtual DC suburb. Connecticut, always been blue, don't remember, but its proximity to NY guaranteed it. The south seems to be turning blue, and those heading for the hills away from congested urban covid environments are going to make a big political difference. Also consider that the need for physical presence in the work place is also there, making the ability to work remote more possible.

It will be like, and I find this very amusing, southern flight once the liberals move in. Where will they go? Some will go, most will stay, assimilate, and liberal thinking will come to take hold in the south.

Covid, it seems, was a huge plus, an acceleration, for liberalism. Trump is a last gasp.
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henry quirk
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Re: American election.

Post by henry quirk »

odysseus wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:41 pm What covid has done is accelerate what I like to call "liberal gentrification" of the boonies, where real estate is cheap, property taxes are low. this is one reason why you see Virginia turn blue: right next to Washington DC, and now much of it a virtual DC suburb. Connecticut, always been blue, don't remember, but its proximity to NY guaranteed it. The south seems to be turning blue, and those heading for the hills away from congested urban covid environments are going to make a big political difference. Also consider that the need for physical presence in the work place is also there, making the ability to work remote more possible.

It will be like, and I find this very amusing, southern flight once the liberals move in. Where will they go? Some will go, most will stay, assimilate, and liberal thinking will come to take hold in the south.

Covid, it seems, was a huge plus, an acceleration, for liberalism. Trump is a last gasp.
lefties, say from calif, run from beer virus policies that shut them down; they carry the thinkin' that informs those policies into, for example, tx; they turn tx purple then blue, and in ten years they'll be runnin' away from the same policies that had 'em on the move in the first place
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Immanuel Can
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Re: American election.

Post by Immanuel Can »

odysseus wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:41 pm Covid, it seems, was a huge plus, an acceleration, for liberalism. Trump is a last gasp.
Congratulations on getting rid of a politician you didn't like.

My condolences on what you got in his place.
Dubious
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Re: American election.

Post by Dubious »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:51 am
odysseus wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:41 pm Covid, it seems, was a huge plus, an acceleration, for liberalism. Trump is a last gasp.
Congratulations on getting rid of a politician you didn't like.

My condolences on what you got in his place.
Time will tell. Time has already told us what Trump is like as if that weren't already apparent enough before that decrepit, loathsome lying bastard became president!
tillingborn
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Re: American election.

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:58 pm
tillingborn wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:49 pm I haven't alleged that any of Joe Biden's policies are popular,
I'll bet you don't even know what they are. You'd have to go and look them up...and you'd have a hard time finding anything.
I really don't see how access to a low resolution photograph of Hunter Biden, seemingly with a crack pipe on his pillow, would change anybody's wishes with regard to the sort of issues listed above.
It's not the crack pipe, although one has to wonder how evil a person is, if they are using their drug-addled son as an agent, when what he needs is rehab. The really serious issue is not HB's drug habit: it's his repeated references to "the big guy" -- somebody he controls access to, and somebody who takes a sizeable cut of his fee for providing access.

Who would you guess Hunter Biden might plausibly mean? List the people you think he could be referring to.
It may be that some Americans are so shallow that their guess about "the big guy" would decide their allegiance, but for most of them, their vote was already determined by their position on the sort of things I mentioned: Covid, health insurance, immigration, fossil fuel, student debt, abortion, gun control. And tax of course; how could I forget tax? There are clear issues about which the two candidates have different views, so for you to claim that "this last election had nothing to do with policy" is a failure of understanding.
Walker
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Re: American election.

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:51 am
odysseus wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:41 pm Covid, it seems, was a huge plus, an acceleration, for liberalism. Trump is a last gasp.
Congratulations on getting rid of a politician you didn't like.

My condolences on what you got in his place.
In the wake of the biggest betrayal, the national mood is: no more trust, no more compromise. Justification isn’t shared by alternative worlds.

Something to keep in mind. Law enforcement and military, both by definition and view, are conservative.

*

Why I will not accept Joe Biden as president
“The challenge is that I — and other conservatives — are not disagreeing with the left within a commonly understood world. We live in alternative worlds.”
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... president/
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