Philosophy Now Forum

I know marxists want to take away a family's guns. Who needs guns in a marxist utopia? Do guns serve a purpose more than killing 3 year old children in Chicago. What can a gun mean to a family?

I'd like Henry to join me here and give me his impressions of the values the gun represents and why it isn't for sale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRevC49B51Q

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/aaronle ... ysgun.html Lyrics

The chorus:
It's just an old double-barrel twelve
The stock is cracked and it kicks like hell
It wouldn't mean what means to me to no one
I can still hear his voice when I put it to my shoulder,
"A gun's like a woman, son, it's all how you hold her."
He taught me a whole lot more than how to hunt
And one of these days I'll pass it on to my grandson
My Granddaddy's gun

It concludes with:

It sits above the mantel on a couple rusty nails
It ain't worth a lot of money and it damn sure ain't for sale

The gun isn't for sale but what does this gun represent; what gives it its priceless value that society is gradually losing?

The gun isn't for sale but what does this gun represent; what gives it its priceless value that society is gradually losing?

A gun is a tool for self-preservation (of body & soul) and autonomy.

The slaver (or criminal) perverts it into a tool of domination (that's why he wants his, but tries to deny you yours).

The free man, by way of the gun, can tell the slaver to eat shit and back that defiance up in a meaningful way.

The gun is *liberty's insurance.









*self-direction, self-responsibility

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:47 pm The gun isn't for sale but what does this gun represent; what gives it its priceless value that society is gradually losing?

A gun is a tool for self-preservation (of body & soul) and autonomy.

The slaver (or criminal) perverts it into a tool of domination (that's why he wants his, but tries to deny you yours).

The free man, by way of the gun, can tell the slaver to eat shit and back that defiance up in a meaningful way.

The gun is *liberty's insurance.
*self-direction, self-responsibility

But I also sense a lot of love in the song. It is as though the gun represents something between father and son missing in these times.
Grandaddy's gun in this sense makes the man but not as a tool of domination but as the ability "to be." Grandaddy's gun is a symbol of love between generations

The gun is more than a tool for kiiing three year olds in Chicago requiring your government to take them away. It is much more which the libs have no conception of. Do you sense the love in the song missing in these times in which manliness has lost its value.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:50 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:47 pm The gun isn't for sale but what does this gun represent; what gives it its priceless value that society is gradually losing?

A gun is a tool for self-preservation (of body & soul) and autonomy.

The slaver (or criminal) perverts it into a tool of domination (that's why he wants his, but tries to deny you yours).

The free man, by way of the gun, can tell the slaver to eat shit and back that defiance up in a meaningful way.

The gun is *liberty's insurance.
*self-direction, self-responsibility

But I also sense a lot of love in the song. It is as though the gun represents something between father and son missing in these times.
Grandaddy's gun in this sense makes the man but not as a tool of domination but as the ability "to be." Grandaddy's gun is a symbol of love between generations

The gun is more than a tool for kiiing three year olds in Chicago requiring your government to take them away. It is much more which the libs have no conception of. Do you sense the love in the song missing in these times in which manliness has lost its value.

I see what you're drivin' at, but: the song doesn't click for me in that way.

I don't need to own guns to live in a free society, but only in a free society can I own guns.

It's a litmus test. A necessary condition for freedom.

I don't need to own guns to live in a free society

mebbe not, but you probably need guns to secure & keep a free society

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:20 pm mebbe not, but you probably need guns to secure & keep a free society

From who? The aliens?

Freedom means freedom from violence.
Freedom from crime.
Freedom from worry.
Freedom from <all the social ails that plague us>

If you need the guns, you ain't free.
If you don't need them but can't have them anyway, you ain't free either.

From who? The aliens?

or kings

or commies


Freedom means freedom from violence.
Freedom from crime.
Freedom from worry.
Freedom from <all the social ails that plague us>

that's how you see it: for me, freedom is self-direction & self-responsibility, not safety


If you need the guns, you ain't free.

without the means to self-defend: you ain't free


If you don't need them but can't have them anyway, you ain't free either.

I have mine; it saved my ass more than once: I'm here and I'm free

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:22 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:20 pm mebbe not, but you probably need guns to secure & keep a free society

From who? The aliens?

Freedom means freedom from violence.
Freedom from crime.
Freedom from worry.
Freedom from <all the social ails that plague us>

If you need the guns, you ain't free.
If you don't need them but can't have them anyway, you ain't free either.

From the Declaration of Independence

https://users.wfu.edu/zulick/340/Declaration.html

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2.2 That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Freedom does not sustain itself. It is always being threatened by those who do not appreciate its value for all but become fixated with the concept that they are not free enough. Freedom has to be defended and preserved. It takes real men of principles and courage to do so.

John Adams in a speech to the military in 1798 warned his fellow countrymen stating, "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion . . . Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Greed, pride, and jealousy will always oppose freedom. The man who knows how to defend his family in the cause of freedom is not PC but still essential if freedom is possible for a society anymore. I can see why grandaddy's gun was loved by the grandson. It represented the potential to express the love for freedom rather than a governmental conditioned response to statist slavery.

granddddy's gun describes and essential values of a father/ son relationship. Not PC

Grandma's first abortion proudly stuffed and hung upon the mantel would represent the values of the modern mother/ daughter relationship. It is the PC symbol of passage for the daughter to prove herself a woman

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:01 pm granddddy's gun describes and essential values of a father/ son relationship. Not PC

Grandma's first abortion proudly stuffed and hung upon the mantel would represent the values of the modern mother/ daughter relationship. It is the PC symbol of passage for the daughter to prove herself a woman

A new branch of taxidermy: somebody could make a killin' (on the killin').

True story: my friend, the LA Democrat, emailed me recently for advice. He's never owned a firearm before, and he wanted to know what sort to get for home defence, because of the riots in his area. I helped him out, of course. What are friends for?

Special thanks to the Democrats for the rapid rise in gun sales and ownership. The NRA thanks them, too, I'm sure.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:32 pm True story: my friend, the LA Democrat, emailed me recently for advice. He's never owned a firearm before, and he wanted to know what sort to get for home defence, because of the riots in his area. I helped him out, of course. What are friends for?

What was it? A bazooka from the local Wal-Mart?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:33 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:32 pm True story: my friend, the LA Democrat, emailed me recently for advice. He's never owned a firearm before, and he wanted to know what sort to get for home defence, because of the riots in his area. I helped him out, of course. What are friends for?

What was it? A bazooka from the local Wal-Mart?

He went to a reputable dealer, and bought legally. And he's taking it to a gun-range to train formally, with lessons. He's never shot a gun before. He never thought he'd have to. But he has two small children and a wife, and he's not a large man. He has to secure himself and his family against the rioters in his area.

The same area is crying for the police to be defunded. So what's left? Buy a gun.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:14 pm I don't need to own guns to live in a free society, but only in a free society can I own guns.

It's a litmus test. A necessary condition for freedom.

But are you free to shoot and kill any one or any thing with that gun?

If no, then are you really living in a free society?