Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:37 pm
Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:00 am
It is the modern way and you are in the majority demanding rights. But does this collective attitude lead to freedom?
I am not demanding rights or freedom - I already have both of those.
What I am "demanding" is that you don't take them away.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:00 am
When freedom to pursue Physical gratifications such as beaches, books, cocktails, and the sacred remote deny efforts to be their own masters. then we are no longer our own masters. The state takes over and becomes our master. It tells you what to drink, read and what beaches you can go too. It is the modern way but I have to admit, I’m not that modern
You don't sound like a master of anything. You are consciously pursuing a Sisyphean task.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:00 am
You either value freedom or you don’t. Like most you apparently don’t accept the necessary obligations making it possible and even to defend a free people. You prefer to celebrate physical gratifications..
I value freedom very much - I have it. I enjoy it It's just that you are being very mystical about the "obligations" it comes with.
Apparently freedom is Sisyphean, so you aren't free - you are just striving for freedom. So who are these "free" people you are defending? How are you defending them? Like Don Quixote ?
I am not demanding rights or freedom - I already have both of those.
What I am "demanding" is that you don't take them away.
No, it isn’t that I want to take them away but rather that you want to give them away.
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion . . . Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
When a society rejects the obligations essential to defend and preserve liberty it becomes consumed by human passions. When a society is unwilling to sacrifice a right for the sake of collective human freedom as the greater good it is in its decline
I’ll use dress codes in a typical high school class as an example. Some believe a girl must feel free to express herself through dress. Others believe that sacrificing a girl’s pride for the sake of school uniforms suggesting students are equal in opportunity is old fashioned.
Is it worth sacrificing a freedom for the sake of the benefits of a free society? You would say no and unwilling to sacrifice rights while I would say this sacrifice taught by the essence of religion makes liberty possible.
Apparently freedom is Sisyphean, so you aren't free - you are just striving for freedom. So who are these "free" people you are defending? How are you defending them? Like Don Quixote ?
I am not defending free people but rather the concept of and the possibility of freedom. Societies are like the Great Beast and like other beasts are born, lives, ages, and dies. For freedom to be possible the Great Beast would have to become more human and not just a Beast obeying natures cycles including the cycle of war and peace.
Individuals have potentials impossible for the Great Beast as a whole. They may have a cultural influence to indicate the benefits of sacrificing rights for the benefit of liberty.
You got on the bus first so have the right to remain seated even as a pregnant woman stands in front of you. Others will offer her their seat. Is that a weakness or a strength in these times when women demand to be treated as men?
Simone nailed it with her commentary on the relationship of rights and obligations. But how many understand it?