Does insanity have any responsibility?

General chit-chat

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 8604
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Dontaskme »

Oh wait...QED Quite Extraordinary Delusion.

I feel one coming any moment now.
commonsense
Posts: 2589
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by commonsense »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 5:35 pm Oh wait...QED Quite Extraordinary Delusion.

I feel one coming any moment now.
Good job!
.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Lacewing »

Luxin wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 3:43 pm Those who appear to be insane are actually the sanest
How so? And what are you basing this on?
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 8604
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Dontaskme »

commonsense wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 5:44 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 5:35 pm Oh wait...QED Quite Extraordinary Delusion.

I feel one coming any moment now.
Good job!
.
Image

It's all the same shit, best to just flush it down the toilet where it belongs, in the sewer with the rest of the rat race.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 2229
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Sculptor »

Lacewing wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 7:41 pm Insanity is demonstrated by forms of extremism.

So, I wonder, ASIDE from the most extreme and diagnosed forms of having an incapacitating mental disorder:

Is insanity an excuse to not care about ones effect on humankind or life?

Does insanity disregard having honor for truth and honesty?

Is insanity a rejection of ALL (oneself, others, life, love, connection, ALL)?

Such attitudes seem to be present in those who rage against the inferiority of the world, while proclaiming themselves to be above it. Yet their extremism has cracks that cannot stand up to honest, sane examination... so they dive deeper into the murky depths of their insanity, spewing up rancid bubbles, rather than bravely and responsibly facing what is illuminated in the Sun.

Does a person have any responsibility to life and everything else in it, through what they make/allow of themselves? Is insanity a claim of being a victim... rather than being a responsible part of ALL?
There are real examples of mental illness. Then there are the observations of "insanity" from a point of view. Those don't count.

Hitler and his millions of followers that waved in the streets for the boys returning home from France, Belgium, Poland, Russia etc.. knowing full well those boys had gone to foreign countries and killed lots of people in their name, are they insane?

Then there is the "extremists", you mention at the top of the thread. "Insane" are you sure? Maybe you just don't see it from their point of view?

Anders Breivic; rational, deadly, amoral. Not insane, just holds a position you are not capable of sharing. Neither do I - but I think it is a mistake to characterise these people as insane since we are in danger of missing the point. Millions of Germans, and Japanese in WW2 were not insane either.

All these people should be expected to take responsibility for their opinions and attitudes.
On the other hand I have a brother with profound paranoid schizophrenia. Despite having a sever mental disorder, the law, whilst it can accept evidence in mitigation, does , in fact expect him to TAKE responsibility for his actions.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Lacewing »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 9:12 pmThen there is the "extremists", you mention at the top of the thread. "Insane" are you sure? Maybe you just don't see it from their point of view?
I don't think insanity is limited to clinical diagnosis. It's also defined as "not of sound mind", "mentally deranged", and "utterly senseless".

Neither does it have to be a constant state. People can have fits of insanity or areas of insanity. There have been many such demonstrations on this Philosophy forum. :D It's not just an issue of "another point of view". Senseless babbling of a manic and inconsistent nature seems somewhat insane to me. As do religious rantings delivered with a rabid intensity that denies any broader shared reality.

POINTS OF VIEW aren't typically so dismissive of all else that exists.

Such types of insanity as these, it appears, cannot be reasoned with because of the extreme nature of their detachment which they insist/rely upon for making their uniquely disconnected and indefensible claims. Agendas of madness.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 8604
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Dontaskme »

That which appears from the deep unknown abyss that is the mind can never be anything more or less than this.. What comes from the unknown stays in the unknown as the unknown, for there is nothing known outside of the unknown.

All ''apparent knowns'' are fictions made known only because I AM fundamentally unknown.

Thankfully, no mind has a mental condition for all conditions are fictions.

Believe it or not, but conditions will whether you like it or not be your own mental creation, even the creation of OTHER is of your own creation, and so you must keep this all to yourself and not fear or reject your own creations, as you cannot unhinge from your own self inflicted conditions by believing they belong to your imagined OTHER.

While projecting your own inflictions onto your imagined OTHER.. you PLAY the role of Frankenstein's Monster, all of your own making. The Mind is nothing more than the mistaking of images on a screen for reality.

Minds who have been told they have mental afflictions are being lied to. For the mind has no condition, except what it falsely imposes upon itself,then believed to be real as it identifies with it's own self imposed imprint. The Mind is nothing more than the mistaking of images on a screen for reality.

IN REALITY there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with you.

.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 2229
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Sculptor »

Lacewing wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 2:37 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 9:12 pmThen there is the "extremists", you mention at the top of the thread. "Insane" are you sure? Maybe you just don't see it from their point of view?
I don't think insanity is limited to clinical diagnosis. It's also defined as "not of sound mind", "mentally deranged", and "utterly senseless".
But terrorists know exactly what they are doing, and "extremism" is a point of view. I think we dismiss these thinks as "insane" at our peril.
This dismissal is a failure to understand.

Neither does it have to be a constant state. People can have fits of insanity or areas of insanity. There have been many such demonstrations on this Philosophy forum. :D It's not just an issue of "another point of view". Senseless babbling of a manic and inconsistent nature seems somewhat insane to me. As do religious rantings delivered with a rabid intensity that denies any broader shared reality.

POINTS OF VIEW aren't typically so dismissive of all else that exists.

Such types of insanity as these, it appears, cannot be reasoned with because of the extreme nature of their detachment which they insist/rely upon for making their uniquely disconnected and indefensible claims. Agendas of madness.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Lacewing »

Sculptor wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 9:11 am But terrorists know exactly what they are doing, and "extremism" is a point of view. I think we dismiss these thinks as "insane" at our peril.
This dismissal is a failure to understand.
I'm not dismissing it... I'm describing it. I've interacted with it many times on this forum and in real life, for the very purpose of understanding it. I would talk with anyone and ask "Tell me what you see". Based on the reasons I've already given, their response might reasonably seem insane, not of sound mind, utterly senseless -- especially if they are dismissive of all else that exists, or they claim to have some kind of spiritual position or vision or "knowing" that is above/beyond, and supposedly unattained by, everyone else. That fantasy has been presented over and over here in so many ways -- each such person thinking their beliefs (even if they deny having them) are some kind of uniquely profound god/truth -- yet their claims, denials, inconsistency, and avoidance are clearly so absurd and childish and needy. As adults, they are able to take fantasy to insane extremes -- which means THEY are being "insane".

Years ago, I remember hearing (several times) about some kind of study that concluded a surprisingly high percentage of adults could be reasonably classified as insane. I was surprised by that at the time. Now I'm not surprised. It has many degrees and moments... accessible to any of us. Some people take it and run with it :D as it appears to offer them an excuse to do/think whatever they want void of reason or connection or caring. Which is what inspired me to start this thread.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 2229
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Sculptor »

Lacewing wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 2:43 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 9:11 am But terrorists know exactly what they are doing, and "extremism" is a point of view. I think we dismiss these thinks as "insane" at our peril.
This dismissal is a failure to understand.
I'm not dismissing it... I'm describing it. I've interacted with it many times on this forum and in real life, for the very purpose of understanding it. I would talk with anyone and ask "Tell me what you see". Based on the reasons I've already given, their response might reasonably seem insane, not of sound mind, utterly senseless -- especially if they are dismissive of all else that exists, or they claim to have some kind of spiritual position or vision or "knowing" that is above/beyond, and supposedly unattained by, everyone else. That fantasy has been presented over and over here in so many ways -- each such person thinking their beliefs (even if they deny having them) are some kind of uniquely profound god/truth -- yet their claims, denials, inconsistency, and avoidance are clearly so absurd and childish and needy. As adults, they are able to take fantasy to insane extremes -- which means THEY are being "insane".

Years ago, I remember hearing (several times) about some kind of study that concluded a surprisingly high percentage of adults could be reasonably classified as insane. I was surprised by that at the time. Now I'm not surprised. It has many degrees and moments... accessible to any of us. Some people take it and run with it :D as it appears to offer them an excuse to do/think whatever they want void of reason or connection or caring. Which is what inspired me to start this thread.
Insane is how you classify it. Like normality - ONE fits all the criteria, or 90% do. These terms are fluid.
But on the topic of extremism, even you would be called extremist by someone else.
Or look back 120 years, everyone were rebid racists.

Everyone is determined by their influences and society holds them responsible for the type of person they are.
Some have more excuse than others.
For myself "insane" has to be more than just holding a crazy opinion. Some people genuinely suffer from cognitive problems.
Gary Childress
Posts: 1985
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 7:41 pm Insanity is demonstrated by forms of extremism.

So, I wonder, ASIDE from the most extreme and diagnosed forms of having an incapacitating mental disorder:

Is insanity an excuse to not care about ones effect on humankind or life?

Does insanity disregard having honor for truth and honesty?

Is insanity a rejection of ALL (oneself, others, life, love, connection, ALL)?

Such attitudes seem to be present in those who rage against the inferiority of the world, while proclaiming themselves to be above it. Yet their extremism has cracks that cannot stand up to honest, sane examination... so they dive deeper into the murky depths of their insanity, spewing up rancid bubbles, rather than bravely and responsibly facing what is illuminated in the Sun.

Does a person have any responsibility to life and everything else in it, through what they make/allow of themselves? Is insanity a claim of being a victim... rather than being a responsible part of ALL?
The "insanity" I'm familiar with is psychosis, where a person completely loses touch with reality. I'm not entirely sure what you are describing above but it sounds like it might be a little different from psychosis to me.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Lacewing »

Gary Childress wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 5:57 pm The "insanity" I'm familiar with is psychosis, where a person completely loses touch with reality. I'm not entirely sure what you are describing above but it sounds like it might be a little different from psychosis to me.
Hi Gary... I've given lots of explanation/description in this thread. If some people think of insanity as only applying in very specific ways and circumstances, fine. I'm talking more broadly than that because, clearly, all throughout history, many people have acted insane in one way or another. Perhaps often characterized by extreme detachment leading to extreme claims, beliefs, and behavior. It's an ongoing phenomenon in many different forms. Many of us have encountered it in our interactions with others in our lives. I don't think it is limited to a particular or clinical diagnosis. It's a state of mind.
Gary Childress
Posts: 1985
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 6:50 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 5:57 pm The "insanity" I'm familiar with is psychosis, where a person completely loses touch with reality. I'm not entirely sure what you are describing above but it sounds like it might be a little different from psychosis to me.
Hi Gary... I've given lots of explanation/description in this thread. If some people think of insanity as only applying in very specific ways and circumstances, fine. I'm talking more broadly than that because, clearly, all throughout history, many people have acted insane in one way or another. Perhaps often characterized by extreme detachment leading to extreme claims, beliefs, and behavior. It's an ongoing phenomenon in many different forms. Many of us have encountered it in our interactions with others in our lives. I don't think it is limited to a particular or clinical diagnosis. It's a state of mind.
Well, it's a fuzzy line for sure. But I don't know if "extremism" is a form of insanity. I mean, is an Amish person 'insane" because they are extremely opposed to modern technology? Is a devoutly religious person "insane" if they take the words of the Bible literally and think the world was created 6000 or so years ago? Are aboriginal tribes living in the Amazon rainforest "insane" for the way they live and for whatever their spiritual practices are? I mean, they may be radically different in their approaches to living but they probably still have meaningful and relatively successful lives.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4128
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by Lacewing »

Gary Childress wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 8:33 pm I don't know if "extremism" is a form of insanity.
You've come up with some great examples of extremism.

However, please note that I'm not claiming that all forms of supposed difference or extremism are insane! Seriously. I'm saying that being extreme is a characteristic of being insane, along with the other characteristics I provided. If you can't relate to such an observation -- if you've never encountered a person in your life who was acting insane -- that's wonderful! :D
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Does insanity have any responsibility?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

FFS. Trump is hardly 'insane'. He's just immature. I don't think he got a lot of parental love.
Post Reply