Quote of the day

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Vitruvius
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Re: Quote of the day

Post by Vitruvius »

Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:25 pm I resurrect a worthy thing from Vitruvius for quote of the day.
I have tried to see the earth turn rather than the sun rise.
This idea is worth discussing in its own discussion.
I'm flattered. But really, try it!
Quite aside from the metaphorical connotations, it's literally worth doing - sunset or sunrise.
You can watch and see it two different ways, and it's amazing to see the earth turn.
Belinda
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Re: Quote of the day

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:16 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:25 pm I resurrect a worthy thing from Vitruvius for quote of the day.
I have tried to see the earth turn rather than the sun rise.
This idea is worth discussing in its own discussion.
I'm flattered. But really, try it!
Quite aside from the metaphorical connotations, it's literally worth doing - sunset or sunrise.
You can watch and see it two different ways, and it's amazing to see the earth turn.
No doubt you also see the planet Venus rather than the evening star or the morning star.

If you can add to a list of similar connections that are not causal connections I'd be very interested.These non-causal connections are known to scientists so don't think I am trying to be mysterious!
Vitruvius
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 9:46 am

Re: Quote of the day

Post by Vitruvius »

Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:25 pm I resurrect a worthy thing from Vitruvius for quote of the day.

"I have tried to see the earth turn rather than the sun rise."

This idea is worth discussing in its own discussion.
Vitruvius wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:16 pmI'm flattered. But really, try it!
Quite aside from the metaphorical connotations, it's literally worth doing - sunset or sunrise.
You can watch and see it two different ways, and it's amazing to see the earth turn.
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:18 pmNo doubt you also see the planet Venus rather than the evening star or the morning star. If you can add to a list of similar connections that are not causal connections I'd be very interested. These non-causal connections are known to scientists so don't think I am trying to be mysterious!
What?
Belinda
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Re: Quote of the day

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius, the Earth turning is not the cause of sunrise and sunset. Sunrise and sunset are properties of the Earth .

Similarly the planet Venus is not the cause of Morning Star and Evening Star. The latter are properties of Venus.
Vitruvius
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 9:46 am

Re: Quote of the day

Post by Vitruvius »

Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:26 pm Vitruvius, the Earth turning is not the cause of sunrise and sunset. Sunrise and sunset are properties of the Earth .

Similarly the planet Venus is not the cause of Morning Star and Evening Star. The latter are properties of Venus.
The sun doesn't rise or set. The Earth turns. We say "sunrise' because that's how it appears, but the reality is quite different. It is the quintessential difference between subjective and objective, between Descartes and Galileo, and Galileo was right! It moves!
Vitruvius
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Re: Quote of the day

Post by Vitruvius »

Total posts 371885 • Total topics 12324

In 21 topics time, there will have been 12345 topics raised on this forum!

That's an average of 30.17 posts per topic.
Vitruvius
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Re: Quote of the day

Post by Vitruvius »

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe Covid free.”
Belinda
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Re: Quote of the day

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:38 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:26 pm Vitruvius, the Earth turning is not the cause of sunrise and sunset. Sunrise and sunset are properties of the Earth .

Similarly the planet Venus is not the cause of Morning Star and Evening Star. The latter are properties of Venus.
The sun doesn't rise or set. The Earth turns. We say "sunrise' because that's how it appears, but the reality is quite different. It is the quintessential difference between subjective and objective, between Descartes and Galileo, and Galileo was right! It moves!
I am trying to explain how phenomena relate to each other. The Morning Star is not the cause of the Evening Star or vice versa. As you well know the Planet Venus is the cause of both phenomena.
Vitruvius
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Re: Quote of the day

Post by Vitruvius »

Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:26 pm Vitruvius, the Earth turning is not the cause of sunrise and sunset. Sunrise and sunset are properties of the Earth .
Belinda wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:45 pmSimilarly the planet Venus is not the cause of Morning Star and Evening Star. The latter are properties of Venus.
Vitruvius wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:38 pmThe sun doesn't rise or set. The Earth turns. We say "sunrise' because that's how it appears, but the reality is quite different. It is the quintessential difference between subjective and objective, between Descartes and Galileo, and Galileo was right! It moves!
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:26 pmI am trying to explain how phenomena relate to each other. The Morning Star is not the cause of the Evening Star or vice versa. As you well know the Planet Venus is the cause of both phenomena.
I've rarely ever heard the term morning star/evening star - whereas sunrise is an everyday term; and the question of whether the earth or the sun is in motion was an important question in the history of Western philosophy. Thus, I have tried to see the earth turn rather than the sun rise. It's not about planets - it's about epistemology. I'm an objectivist - arguing that what's true matters. You're a subjectivist because the Church was very powerful and unfortunately, wrong.
Belinda
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Quote of the day

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:10 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:26 pm Vitruvius, the Earth turning is not the cause of sunrise and sunset. Sunrise and sunset are properties of the Earth .
Belinda wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:45 pmSimilarly the planet Venus is not the cause of Morning Star and Evening Star. The latter are properties of Venus.
Vitruvius wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:38 pmThe sun doesn't rise or set. The Earth turns. We say "sunrise' because that's how it appears, but the reality is quite different. It is the quintessential difference between subjective and objective, between Descartes and Galileo, and Galileo was right! It moves!
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:26 pmI am trying to explain how phenomena relate to each other. The Morning Star is not the cause of the Evening Star or vice versa. As you well know the Planet Venus is the cause of both phenomena.
I've rarely ever heard the term morning star/evening star - whereas sunrise is an everyday term; and the question of whether the earth or the sun is in motion was an important question in the history of Western philosophy. Thus, I have tried to see the earth turn rather than the sun rise. It's not about planets - it's about epistemology. I'm an objectivist - arguing that what's true matters. You're a subjectivist because the Church was very powerful and unfortunately, wrong.
You deserve to have this explained to you, as I respect your obsession about geothermal energy.

I have forgotten what the following has to do with geothermal energy, if anything. Anyway.

Events can and often do correlate. Not all correlations are causal correlations.
Vitruvius
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Re: Quote of the day

Post by Vitruvius »

Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:39 am
You deserve to have this explained to you, as I respect your obsession about geothermal energy.

I have forgotten what the following has to do with geothermal energy, if anything. Anyway.

Events can and often do correlate. Not all correlations are causal correlations.
Belinda,

I've given up on trying to explain anything to you. The responses I get back are so cryptic and esoteric, I'd feel like I were shouting English words at a speaker of a foreign language, in the hope that volume alone will somehow carry my meaning.

It's a long story, how subjectivism, starting with Descartes - leads to climate change, and as you have refused or been unable to follow anything I've said so far, with a response that indicates you understand my argument, I'm not willing to lay out the whole thing only to get back some oddly tangential reply.

I suspect you're doing it on purpose; either mischief, or because you're weird, and it's not like I haven't enjoyed talking to you, but you've made clear, whatever I say, you won't have it - so there's no point. I would just remind you that you posted this:
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:25 pm I resurrect a worthy thing from Vitruvius for quote of the day.

"I have tried to see the earth turn rather than the sun rise."

This idea is worth discussing in its own discussion.
And when I thanked you, and explained the meaning, and the significance in Western philosophy, you start banging on about Venus. That said, Venus does play a role in the theory of climate change, because it was explaining the unexpectedly high surface temperature of Venus, that led to an understanding of how atmosphere traps heat. But this morning star business, I still can't make head nor tails.
Belinda
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Quote of the day

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius wrote: Belinda wrote:
↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:25 pm
I resurrect a worthy thing from Vitruvius for quote of the day.

"I have tried to see the earth turn rather than the sun rise."

This idea is worth discussing in its own discussion.
And when I thanked you, and explained the meaning, and the significance in Western philosophy, you start banging on about Venus.
I know you have no clue what I am talking about. I come to this forum to learn but so far nobody has helped with my problem about correlations .When I first read that quotation from you I thought here is someone who understands about correlations.
Vitruvius
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 9:46 am

Re: Quote of the day

Post by Vitruvius »

Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:46 pm I know you have no clue what I am talking about. I come to this forum to learn but so far nobody has helped with my problem about correlations .When I first read that quotation from you I thought here is someone who understands about correlations.
I understand correlation as well as the next university graduate; what I don't understand is your problem with it. I love this one; more people die in hospitals than in McDonald's so if I have a heart attack, get a big mac and milkshake down me, stat! That's a spurious correlation.
Belinda
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Quote of the day

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:14 pm
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:46 pm I know you have no clue what I am talking about. I come to this forum to learn but so far nobody has helped with my problem about correlations .When I first read that quotation from you I thought here is someone who understands about correlations.
I understand correlation as well as the next university graduate; what I don't understand is your problem with it. I love this one; more people die in hospitals than in McDonald's so if I have a heart attack, get a big mac and milkshake down me, stat! That's a spurious correlation.
Maybe, but you don't understand that correlations, negative or positive, are not always causal but are sometimes laws of nature(or science).
Vitruvius
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 9:46 am

Re: Quote of the day

Post by Vitruvius »

Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:46 pm I know you have no clue what I am talking about. I come to this forum to learn but so far nobody has helped with my problem about correlations. When I first read that quotation from you I thought here is someone who understands about correlations.
Vitruvius wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:14 pmI understand correlation as well as the next university graduate; what I don't understand is your problem with it. I love this one; more people die in hospitals than in McDonald's so if I have a heart attack, get a big mac and milkshake down me, stat! That's a spurious correlation.
Belinda wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:53 amMaybe, but you don't understand that correlations, negative or positive, are not always causal but are sometimes laws of nature(or science).
So your problem with correlations then, is what you assume I don't understand?

How do you know what I understand, or don't understand?

Are you a mind reader?
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