Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:36 pm**

Going back to the original question raised, this is one of those questions that no one seems to be able to agree upon. Probably the only thing that Nietzsche ever stated that I agree with was his assertion that whatever has a history, cannot be defined, and I think this really does explain why it is so difficult to define who is a Jew. At one time, the Jews relied on a patrilineal line, but that was changed by the Pharisees, who have been unfairly maligned, and they evolved into the rabbis of today, who now claim that the Jews always descended from the mother's line, which is actually historically false, but very, very few Jews know this. Eventually, Judaism developed into a "religion" whereas it started off as a political contract, and Judaism is itself divided into many different sects. Because of hatred towards the Jews, the Jews were constantly forced to move. Every time they moved, they would incorporate different surrounding traditions. So now we have some Jews who claim to be quite Orthodox, who actually dress and wear their hair in a style that depicts Polish nobility, not even realizing that they have picked up a lot of non-Jewish traditions while claiming to be Orthodox.

Bottom line, depending on where you stop at historically, and what line of thought one adheres to, one will define a Jew in a specific way that others will undoubtedly disagree with.

However, most anti-Semites will consider you to be a Jew and will want you dead because of it. Anti-Semites typically see Jews as a race and any amount of Jewish blood is sufficient for them to persecute you. Well, they'll actually claim not to be anti-Semitic as they lie about Israel and dehumanize Israeli Jews, and will use their lies about Israel as a "justification" to assault you as a Jew even if you live outside Israel. And, we are supposed to refer to this type of conduct as rational behaving leftist behavior.

Posted: **Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:34 pm**

Science Fan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:36 pm Going back to the original question raised, this is one of those questions that no one seems to be able to agree upon. Probably the only thing that Nietzsche ever stated that I agree with was his assertion that whatever has a history, cannot be defined, and I think this really does explain why it is so difficult to define who is a Jew. At one time, the Jews relied on a patrilineal line, but that was changed by the Pharisees, who have been unfairly maligned, and they evolved into the rabbis of today, who now claim that the Jews always descended from the mother's line, which is actually historically false, but very, very few Jews know this. Eventually, Judaism developed into a "religion" whereas it started off as a political contract, and Judaism is itself divided into many different sects. Because of hatred towards the Jews, the Jews were constantly forced to move. Every time they moved, they would incorporate different surrounding traditions. So now we have some Jews who claim to be quite Orthodox, who actually dress and wear their hair in a style that depicts Polish nobility, not even realizing that they have picked up a lot of non-Jewish traditions while claiming to be Orthodox.

Bottom line, depending on where you stop at historically, and what line of thought one adheres to, one will define a Jew in a specific way that others will undoubtedly disagree with.

However, most anti-Semites will consider you to be a Jew and will want you dead because of it. Anti-Semites typically see Jews as a race and any amount of Jewish blood is sufficient for them to persecute you. Well, they'll actually claim not to be anti-Semitic as they lie about Israel and dehumanize Israeli Jews, and will use their lies about Israel as a "justification" to assault you as a Jew even if you live outside Israel. And, we are supposed to refer to this type of conduct as rational behaving leftist behavior.

They are a walking paradox, undefinable except through the act of existence alone, hence my argument is that the "Jew" is the most human of all the cultures because it is the most honest about the human condition.

Posted: **Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:36 pm**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:43 am I don't need to say a word ↑↑↑

Of course you don't, you can't criticize truth.

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:04 am**

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:36 am
Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:15 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:10 am Delving into family history I have found that I come from a largely Jewish background, most likely Polish and/or Austrian Jew. Some debate that Jewish heritage is a blood line, other's strictly cultural.

So is it a blood line or cultural heritage? I have my opinions already, but thoughts?
Both. There is Israel spiritual, and Israel physical. And Christianity is an extension for many of Israel spiritual, aside from conversion to Judaism.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Israel translates to "he who struggles with God"? If anything the Jews are the most honest, and human, of the races because they are frank in their premises.

They are definitely a distinct people, but race? I think not. Depends on ones definition. Distinct though, yes. Most human? No. We all are. Most honest? Depends on your definition, again.

Posted: **Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:22 am**

you start off with a reasonable post - and your knowledge of at least some history is greater than mine - I knew nothing about the "white paper"

This forum is ok by me - it has knowledgeble folks (I can't spell - a brain thing, suspect i'm mildly dyslexic - if you are able to understand my points in spite of thier poor spelling, I'd be grateful if you would not make personal aspersions toward me WRT to my poor spelling.

would that be ok with you Veg?

- and as for "apologies are for the weak minded" - only a thug/cretain believes such crap.

I apologized to you 3 weeks ago, i did so because my comment lowered myself, and my apology was my mea culpa to try to raise my civility/self honor to a level i know i am able to play on. my emotions took over my honor and after i cooled down i made amends to you.

IMO i did not do so because of my "Weak mind", i did so because i was wrong in my original conduct.

now to your post - the first 1/2 half informed me and do not contest.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am
The rest of the world needs to butt out. It's between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Every time another country sticks its self-righteous snout into the affairs of another it only makes a much bigger mess. You don't have to look very far to see that happening. Human societies are incredibly fragile. Oust one leader who 'inconveniences' certain ahem...'powers' and you end up with a snowballing, unfixable mess. What a different world we would have had if Amin al-Husseini had been muscled out of power instead of the very decent and highly educated Mohammad Mosaddegh of Iran.

I agree - i know about Mosaddagh of the 1950's.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am But no, the region that is now Israel was of no great value (no oil). The US and its little bitch and partner in crime GB get it wrong every time so they need to learn to butt the fuck out of other countries' business, self-serving shit-heads that they are. If either actually gave a crap about dictators they could have easily knocked off Hitler without too much effort.

no argument for me here.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am The multiple nails in the coffin of peace in the region: Amin al-Husayni rejecting the 'White Paper' (which was advantageous to arabs) and distributing anti-Jewish propaganda to arabs. He was fanatically anti-Jew and pro power for himself. The 'White Paper' was eventually agreed to by arabs but was ultimately discarded by GB due to pressure from the US after WW11. Naturally the arab side was upset by this. That's hardly the fault of modern day Israelis. GB did the dirty on the arabs. It had made promises to both sides that were at odds with each other: in 1917 promising Jews a National homeland in 'Palestine', then backtracking and coming up with the White Paper in 1939 which severely limited Jewish immigration. White Paper was rescinded after WW11 and the British left them all to it in 1948. The rest is history.....What a convoluted mess.

see above - i knew nothing of this. thanks for the education.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am And you ''Progressive'' nit-wits think you can fix it with your disingenuous meddling?

I my be a "nit-wit" in your eyes, but i'm no "progressive" - i loathe identity politics.

I'm a 70's era - Secular humanist - univeral humanity - meltingpot Liberal (would be a registered Democrat if it were the 1970's today - but that "progressive" party has no room for "old school" Liberals, so I consider myself as a Liberal Libertarian "Liberaltarian", and would register myself as a Libertarian (that party's Social Views and Constitution view align with mine - not NOT their economic view though (which are Republican sadly).

but my state does not recognized the Libertarian Party - so I cannot register as a member of - and so only let to choose the "amorphic" registration of "other" (Independant).

I like the Greens - economically and socially, but they do not value Constitutionalism - i would reg as a Green if my state offered as an alternate, but again not offered either.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Please explain how you came up with your stance on which side is 'right'.

there is not need to repeat myself - refer to my stance via my comments weeks ago above (5th Geneva Accords concerning obligations of the occupying power to give citizenship to the all of the occupied.

which Israel has failed to do for 1/2 a century now.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Perhaps you should blame Germans. Do you think so many Jews would have wanted to migrate to Israel if the Nazis hadn't tried to exterminate them? Or if there hadn't still been a large amount of anti-Jewish sentiment post WW11? Many had nowhere to go. No homes. Allied countries weren't exactly welcoming them with compassion and open arms.

now you are just ranting and ignoring the Geneva accords which Israel is a signatory of.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am By 'butting out' I am referring to both ''Progressive'' hypocrites AND fanatical American zionists who haven't set foot in the place. You ''Progressives''

I'm not a Progressive.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am have been awfully silent on the US murdering hundreds of thousands of muslims in their own countries and destabilising and destroying the cradle of civilisation. Where were/are all the protests?

Iraqnam - a fully illegal invasion of a sovereign nation in full opposition of the UN. I await the UN Security Council's rulling (now waiting 15 yrs) - to rule upom the legal action to take for Sadam's violation of res 643?........after US was caught bugging French and Mexican UN offices the US refused to convene said SC council and instead illegally invaded Iraq.

again, I await the UN's SC decision on the matter of Iraq..........................

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am they were all over the place in 2004

no they were'nt - they and I fully protested Bush"ler" (the common juvinal meme i used back then as many others did too)............he just ignored "us" and did his thing for "daddy" (daddy was a smart man - who legally kicked Iraqs ass OUT of Kuwait - i.e. raq violated International Law (just like Putin did with Ukraine) when he moved into another people's sovereign land.

SR was smart to end that war (and to make it LEGAL - via the UN - and to allow the Kuwaiti Army to be the first force to retake their land by foot) at the conclusion of the state and legal ojective (removing Iraq from another nation's land they illegally took by force).

Jr ignored all legal action and only wanted to show his daddy that he too wore pants and the rest is now history.

ISIS only exist today due to Jr's folly of his illegal war of Iraqnam.

its called "blowback"

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Too busy worshipping your 'troops' (professional murderers) and crying over perceived insults to 'protected groups'? Too busy finding comments to be 'offended on behalf of' whatever group happens to be flavour of the month at any given time? It's so much better to have your arms and legs blown off by a drone than (heaven forbid) have your religion criticised.

??? i saw none of the above from "progressives" between 2004 and 2009.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am You think Palestinians have a right to 'blood revenge' but Israelis don't?

never said that - you are being willfully dishonest here.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am What about all the children blown up in school buses? Palestinian extremists have been doing that since the 1970s. Throwing children out of the top floor of a school? (children are often specifically targeted). The Munich olympics? No doubt you consider those things to be completely 'justified'.

yes bad stuff esp asymmetric warfare, and i note that the last sentence you are talking out your ass.

as you know i never stated such acts as justified.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Btw, both black and white South Africans and Zimbabweans are leaving in droves because the region's now such a dangerous shit-hole. You can't force change on another country without invariably creating a huge mess. What do you think of Robert Mugabe?

he's an asshole like all dictators.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am You don't think your own country should be given back to the native Americans?

nope, but they should be given full rights as Americans, and those "Natives" that wish to also be members of their Tribal Nations should be allowed that.

and America should honor those "american indian" Nation's treaties as sovriegn......which we generally do today.

our conduct in the previous century in this regard was reprehensible - you will not find me claiming otherwise.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Of course, they might demand 'blood for previous wrongs'.

i support the 1st amendment and so fine with those demands - though to not agree with them and if they go beyond AIM acts (I supported AIM because they used arms to defend their rights and did not go out and kill whites(they were responsible militants - thanks to thier leaders - Peltier should be freed, he never got a fair trial and IMO i think he was totally innocent) then they will be acting as terrorists and will not have my support.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Why do you feel so 'threatened' by Putin?

because he illegally invaded and seized lands from to sovreign nations - Georgia and Ukraine.

exactly like Hitler did with Saarland, Austria, and the remaining part of Checkloslovokia (the rest of it - the first 1/3 was legally taken via the corrupt and unjust - but legal - munich accord)

and like Hitler the Russians love their asshole too.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Do you often lose sleep over foreign leaders who live thousands of miles away

yes Putin (who is Russia - 85-pecent support from the pleabs who love dictators as long as he is their dictator) scares the living shit out of me!

he's just getting started - if i were an Eastern European I'd be hysterical with fear and not gotten any sleep in the last 5 years.

Baltic States are next to be annexed, for Kalinigrad must be re-united via the land bridge (so wrong that Latvia is that land that separated the Russian Enclave- such a condition must be rectified).

NATO - a strong one - not a weak one like the one we have now and like Trump likes (and of course Putin also likes) is VITAL - to contain the asshole (Putin, not Trump - who is also an asshole - lol)

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am from your well-armed nuclearpower of a country? You should get help for that.
And the word is 'lose'. 'Loose' has a quite different meaning.

"you need help" if you do not fear Russia.

or are you sitting at the Troll Factory in St Petersburg madam?

Posted: **Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:58 am**

I prefer honest debate with others that disagree with honest intentions.

i ignore trolls however - your post below is very trollish - the usual miss characterizations/aspersions toward my character, willful ignorance towards points presented, willful diversions toward irrelevant points not related to the points being rebutted.........etc............

I will reply to your post below this time, but not to other by you if you continue to play the troll.

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm Gaffo: If you were an Arab Druze living in the Middle East, which country would you want to live in? Israel, where an Arab Druze even headed the entire nation during an interim period, or an Islamic one where you get persecuted?

Israel.

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm If you were an atheist in the Middle East, which country would you want to live in? In Israel, where you can freely tell people you are an atheist without fear of legal prosecution, or an Islamic one where you can even be put to death for being an atheist?

Israel - i'm an athiest BTW.

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm If you were a woman in the Middle East, and especially if you wanted an advanced degree, which country would you rather live in? Israel where Arab-Muslim women frequently enter the country to earn advanced degrees or a surrounding Islamic one where as a woman you are legally a second-class citizen? If you were gay living in the Middle East, which country would you want to live in? Israel, where gays are treated better than in almost any nation in the world, or a surrounding Islamic one where you can be put to death for being gay?

Israel.

Israeli Palestinians are treated as Second Class Citizens (but at least they are Citizens - unlike their Palestinian brethren in the Westbank)

oddly though, how the JEWISH folks living in the SAME WESTBANK have Israeli Citizenship.

funny huh?

how does that work Bubba?

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm
Gaffo: When you lie about Israel,

you must be a Trump Cultist - allergic to facts, prefering "alternative facts" no doubt.

I stated one simple fact. (you know the things you ignore).

Israel is a signatory of the 4th geneva accord which is clear about the duties of an occupying power concerning the responibility a state has toward the people they occupy,

they must give them citizenship of the occupying power.

that is clear

yes?

so for the last 1/2 century Israel has and continues to violate the Rule of Law of Nations in denying Palestinians Israeli Citizenship. they have been and still continue to be "non-persons" 50+ year now.

as state of full illegality

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm
and desire its destruction,

never said such - you are now just being a lying Troll.

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm
all you are doing is taking away a nation in the Middle East that secures rights for numerous minorities,

unless you are the million Muslim or Christians living in the Westbank - then you have no rights no citizenship and live under military rule with willy-nilly "military justice" with no representation, and literally spit upon by the occupying power.

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm
who under an Islamic state, which is the very type of state the so-called Palestinians want to establish, get persecuted. Just look at how Christians have been cleansed since the Jews were cleansed from Gaza? Or, how well are Christians treated in Egypt? Lebanon? Jordan?

oh yes the predicable "diversion tactic" of the Troll.

"look at so and so, at least we are better than so and so"

such a low bar, and yet you are proud that Israel treats her people better than the Saudis (clue Bubba she don't treat those she illegally occupies in the Westbank better than the Saudis do their people).

---------------I not your willful ignorance in not mentioning the Westbank and instead fixating upon only Israel proper (another tactic Israeli lover Trolls do).

well Bubba Irsael includes "Greater Israel" - that means all actions she does in the Westbank IS Israel..........and shall be, until she leaves that Westbank.

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm
And boy, on the one hand, we are to believe that the Israelis are committing "genocide" against Arab-Muslims,

more made up lies from you the Troll.

never stated that the Israeli assholes were committing genocide.

they are only oppressing - illegally - just another asshat Nation like the Apartheid South Africa of old.

same shit.

Israel is the last Apartheid State.

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm
but, on the other hand, we are to believe that the Arab-Muslims in Israel are going to be a majority soon?

more willful ignorance from you noted.

no - in Isarel proper Arabs make up 20-percent.

.............but since the Racist New York City News and Russian Jews have settled 1/2 of the Westbank since the 1990's, the "two state" solution is DEAD............that leaves only one solution - one state - and since a million Arabs live in the WB when Israel is FORCED to include them as citizens in 2040 Israel will become a 55/45 Muslim majority.

ya - facts sometimes hurt - so just play your game of "Fake facts" its easier for those that fear reality.

Science Fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:03 pm
It's always comical how you Israel-haters can't even figure out that you constantly contradict yourselves with the lies you tell.

I find Trumpites more comical myself

Posted: **Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:27 am**

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:22 am you start off with a reasonable post - and your knowledge of at least some history is greater than mine - I knew nothing about the "white paper"

This forum is ok by me - it has knowledgeble folks (I can't spell - a brain thing, suspect i'm mildly dyslexic - if you are able to understand my points in spite of thier poor spelling, I'd be grateful if you would not make personal aspersions toward me WRT to my poor spelling.

would that be ok with you Veg?

- and as for "apologies are for the weak minded" - only a thug/cretain believes such crap.

I apologized to you 3 weeks ago, i did so because my comment lowered myself, and my apology was my mea culpa to try to raise my civility/self honor to a level i know i am able to play on. my emotions took over my honor and after i cooled down i made amends to you.

IMO i did not do so because of my "Weak mind", i did so because i was wrong in my original conduct.

now to your post - the first 1/2 half informed me and do not contest.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am
The rest of the world needs to butt out. It's between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Every time another country sticks its self-righteous snout into the affairs of another it only makes a much bigger mess. You don't have to look very far to see that happening. Human societies are incredibly fragile. Oust one leader who 'inconveniences' certain ahem...'powers' and you end up with a snowballing, unfixable mess. What a different world we would have had if Amin al-Husseini had been muscled out of power instead of the very decent and highly educated Mohammad Mosaddegh of Iran.

I agree - i know about Mosaddagh of the 1950's.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am But no, the region that is now Israel was of no great value (no oil). The US and its little bitch and partner in crime GB get it wrong every time so they need to learn to butt the fuck out of other countries' business, self-serving shit-heads that they are. If either actually gave a crap about dictators they could have easily knocked off Hitler without too much effort.

no argument for me here.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am The multiple nails in the coffin of peace in the region: Amin al-Husayni rejecting the 'White Paper' (which was advantageous to arabs) and distributing anti-Jewish propaganda to arabs. He was fanatically anti-Jew and pro power for himself. The 'White Paper' was eventually agreed to by arabs but was ultimately discarded by GB due to pressure from the US after WW11. Naturally the arab side was upset by this. That's hardly the fault of modern day Israelis. GB did the dirty on the arabs. It had made promises to both sides that were at odds with each other: in 1917 promising Jews a National homeland in 'Palestine', then backtracking and coming up with the White Paper in 1939 which severely limited Jewish immigration. White Paper was rescinded after WW11 and the British left them all to it in 1948. The rest is history.....What a convoluted mess.
see above - i knew nothing of this. thanks for the education.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am And you ''Progressive'' nit-wits think you can fix it with your disingenuous meddling?

I my be a "nit-wit" in your eyes, but i'm no "progressive" - i loathe identity politics.

I'm a 70's era - Secular humanist - univeral humanity - meltingpot Liberal (would be a registered Democrat if it were the 1970's today - but that "progressive" party has no room for "old school" Liberals, so I consider myself as a Liberal Libertarian "Liberaltarian", and would register myself as a Libertarian (that party's Social Views and Constitution view align with mine - not NOT their economic view though (which are Republican sadly).

but my state does not recognized the Libertarian Party - so I cannot register as a member of - and so only let to choose the "amorphic" registration of "other" (Independant).

I like the Greens - economically and socially, but they do not value Constitutionalism - i would reg as a Green if my state offered as an alternate, but again not offered either.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Please explain how you came up with your stance on which side is 'right'.

there is not need to repeat myself - refer to my stance via my comments weeks ago above (5th Geneva Accords concerning obligations of the occupying power to give citizenship to the all of the occupied.

which Israel has failed to do for 1/2 a century now.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Perhaps you should blame Germans. Do you think so many Jews would have wanted to migrate to Israel if the Nazis hadn't tried to exterminate them? Or if there hadn't still been a large amount of anti-Jewish sentiment post WW11? Many had nowhere to go. No homes. Allied countries weren't exactly welcoming them with compassion and open arms.
now you are just ranting and ignoring the Geneva accords which Israel is a signatory of.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am By 'butting out' I am referring to both ''Progressive'' hypocrites AND fanatical American zionists who haven't set foot in the place. You ''Progressives''
I'm not a Progressive.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am have been awfully silent on the US murdering hundreds of thousands of muslims in their own countries and destabilising and destroying the cradle of civilisation. Where were/are all the protests?

Iraqnam - a fully illegal invasion of a sovereign nation in full opposition of the UN. I await the UN Security Council's rulling (now waiting 15 yrs) - to rule upom the legal action to take for Sadam's violation of res 643?........after US was caught bugging French and Mexican UN offices the US refused to convene said SC council and instead illegally invaded Iraq.

again, I await the UN's SC decision on the matter of Iraq..........................

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am they were all over the place in 2004
no they were'nt - they and I fully protested Bush"ler" (the common juvinal meme i used back then as many others did too)............he just ignored "us" and did his thing for "daddy" (daddy was a smart man - who legally kicked Iraqs ass OUT of Kuwait - i.e. raq violated International Law (just like Putin did with Ukraine) when he moved into another people's sovereign land.

SR was smart to end that war (and to make it LEGAL - via the UN - and to allow the Kuwaiti Army to be the first force to retake their land by foot) at the conclusion of the state and legal ojective (removing Iraq from another nation's land they illegally took by force).

Jr ignored all legal action and only wanted to show his daddy that he too wore pants and the rest is now history.

ISIS only exist today due to Jr's folly of his illegal war of Iraqnam.

its called "blowback"

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Too busy worshipping your 'troops' (professional murderers) and crying over perceived insults to 'protected groups'? Too busy finding comments to be 'offended on behalf of' whatever group happens to be flavour of the month at any given time? It's so much better to have your arms and legs blown off by a drone than (heaven forbid) have your religion criticised.
??? i saw none of the above from "progressives" between 2004 and 2009.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am You think Palestinians have a right to 'blood revenge' but Israelis don't?

never said that - you are being willfully dishonest here.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am What about all the children blown up in school buses? Palestinian extremists have been doing that since the 1970s. Throwing children out of the top floor of a school? (children are often specifically targeted). The Munich olympics? No doubt you consider those things to be completely 'justified'.
yes bad stuff esp asymmetric warfare, and i note that the last sentence you are talking out your ass.

as you know i never stated such acts as justified.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Btw, both black and white South Africans and Zimbabweans are leaving in droves because the region's now such a dangerous shit-hole. You can't force change on another country without invariably creating a huge mess. What do you think of Robert Mugabe?
he's an asshole like all dictators.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am You don't think your own country should be given back to the native Americans?
nope, but they should be given full rights as Americans, and those "Natives" that wish to also be members of their Tribal Nations should be allowed that.

and America should honor those "american indian" Nation's treaties as sovriegn......which we generally do today.

our conduct in the previous century in this regard was reprehensible - you will not find me claiming otherwise.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Of course, they might demand 'blood for previous wrongs'.
i support the 1st amendment and so fine with those demands - though to not agree with them and if they go beyond AIM acts (I supported AIM because they used arms to defend their rights and did not go out and kill whites(they were responsible militants - thanks to thier leaders - Peltier should be freed, he never got a fair trial and IMO i think he was totally innocent) then they will be acting as terrorists and will not have my support.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Why do you feel so 'threatened' by Putin?
because he illegally invaded and seized lands from to sovreign nations - Georgia and Ukraine.

exactly like Hitler did with Saarland, Austria, and the remaining part of Checkloslovokia (the rest of it - the first 1/3 was legally taken via the corrupt and unjust - but legal - munich accord)

and like Hitler the Russians love their asshole too.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am Do you often lose sleep over foreign leaders who live thousands of miles away

yes Putin (who is Russia - 85-pecent support from the pleabs who love dictators as long as he is their dictator) scares the living shit out of me!

he's just getting started - if i were an Eastern European I'd be hysterical with fear and not gotten any sleep in the last 5 years.

Baltic States are next to be annexed, for Kalinigrad must be re-united via the land bridge (so wrong that Latvia is that land that separated the Russian Enclave- such a condition must be rectified).

NATO - a strong one - not a weak one like the one we have now and like Trump likes (and of course Putin also likes) is VITAL - to contain the asshole (Putin, not Trump - who is also an asshole - lol)

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am from your well-armed nuclearpower of a country? You should get help for that.
And the word is 'lose'. 'Loose' has a quite different meaning.
"you need help" if you do not fear Russia.

or are you sitting at the Troll Factory in St Petersburg madam?

I never said apologies are for the weak minded. I thought it was nice that you apologised. It's the opposite of weak-minded. Shows that someone has feelings.
I must need help then because I don't fear Russia. In fact I don't fear any country except your own. Oh, and according to the troll 'sci fi fan' I'm 'anti-Israel', anti-semitic, and 'make up lies about Israel'. Of course, he 'forgot' to post where all this 'anti-semitism' was or what the 'lies' were. Notice how he NEVER quotes anyone? Why do you think that is? He's the only person on here who does that. Haha. His agenda-driven brain can't compute 'indifferent'. I'm pretty sure Israel is a big and powerful enough piece of rock to stand up for itself. If I see people talking rubbish I will point it out, no matter what agenda they are peddling. It's only facts that I'm interested in.

Posted: **Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:38 am**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:27 am
I never said apologies are for the weak minded. I thought it was nice that you apologised. It's the opposite of weak-minded. Shows that someone has feelings.

yes i know - i was speaking generally, saw the other guys reference in threat and thought he was wrong. sci guy or e7 or some other person.

I must need help then because I don't fear Russia. In fact I don't fear any country except your own.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:27 am Oh, and according to the troll 'sci fi fan' I'm 'anti-Israel', anti-semetic, and 'make up lies about Israel. Of course he 'forgot' to post where all this 'anti-semitism' was or what the 'lies' were. Notice how he NEVER quotes anyone? Why do you think that is? Haha. His agenda-driven brain can't compute 'indifferent'. I'm pretty sure Israel is a big and powerful enough piece of rock to stand up for itself. If I see people talking rubbish I will point it out, no matter what agenda they are peddling. It's only facts that I'm interested in.

ya he must be a troll - never acknowledges the existance of the Westbank. probably calls it Judea and Sumaria

and reads this gem before going to bed each night.

http://maxblumenthal.com/2011/07/inside ... ror-tract/

BTW i'm in fear FOR my Nation since nov16 - and if the Dems don't at least take back our House of Reps in nov18, i think my Nation will become a dictatorship like Russia,

its ok to not fear Russia - i can only assume you do not live in Eastern Europe.

you are not Latvian are you?

.

Posted: **Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:42 am**

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:38 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:27 am
I never said apologies are for the weak minded. I thought it was nice that you apologised. It's the opposite of weak-minded. Shows that someone has feelings.

yes i know - i was speaking generally, saw the other guys reference in threat and thought he was wrong. sci guy or e7 or some other person.

I must need help then because I don't fear Russia. In fact I don't fear any country except your own.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:27 am Oh, and according to the troll 'sci fi fan' I'm 'anti-Israel', anti-semetic, and 'make up lies about Israel. Of course he 'forgot' to post where all this 'anti-semitism' was or what the 'lies' were. Notice how he NEVER quotes anyone? Why do you think that is? Haha. His agenda-driven brain can't compute 'indifferent'. I'm pretty sure Israel is a big and powerful enough piece of rock to stand up for itself. If I see people talking rubbish I will point it out, no matter what agenda they are peddling. It's only facts that I'm interested in.
ya he must be a troll - never acknowledges the existance of the Westbank. probably calls it Judea and Sumaria

and reads this gem before going to bed each night.

http://maxblumenthal.com/2011/07/inside ... ror-tract/

BTW i'm in fear FOR my Nation since nov16 - and if the Dems don't at least take back our House of Reps in nov18, i think my Nation will become a dictatorship like Russia,

its ok to not fear Russia - i can only assume you do not live in Eastern Europe.

you are not Latvian are you? .

You miss the point. If you read my comments I'm effectively siding with Israel, since the mess isn't the fault of either, and the pro-Palestinian arguments are never very convincing to me. I think both your and scifi fan's arguments are stupid and unconvincing. You are both too agenda-driven to make much sense.

Posted: **Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:03 am**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:42 am
gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:38 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:27 am
I never said apologies are for the weak minded. I thought it was nice that you apologised. It's the opposite of weak-minded. Shows that someone has feelings.

yes i know - i was speaking generally, saw the other guys reference in threat and thought he was wrong. sci guy or e7 or some other person.

I must need help then because I don't fear Russia. In fact I don't fear any country except your own.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:27 am Oh, and according to the troll 'sci fi fan' I'm 'anti-Israel', anti-semetic, and 'make up lies about Israel. Of course he 'forgot' to post where all this 'anti-semitism' was or what the 'lies' were. Notice how he NEVER quotes anyone? Why do you think that is? Haha. His agenda-driven brain can't compute 'indifferent'. I'm pretty sure Israel is a big and powerful enough piece of rock to stand up for itself. If I see people talking rubbish I will point it out, no matter what agenda they are peddling. It's only facts that I'm interested in.
ya he must be a troll - never acknowledges the existance of the Westbank. probably calls it Judea and Sumaria

and reads this gem before going to bed each night.

http://maxblumenthal.com/2011/07/inside ... ror-tract/

BTW i'm in fear FOR my Nation since nov16 - and if the Dems don't at least take back our House of Reps in nov18, i think my Nation will become a dictatorship like Russia,

its ok to not fear Russia - i can only assume you do not live in Eastern Europe.

you are not Latvian are you? .
You miss the point. If you read my comments I'm effectively siding with Israel, since the mess isn't the fault of either, and the pro-Palestinian arguments are never very convincing to me. I think both your and scifi fan's arguments are stupid and unconvincing. You are both too agenda-driven to make much sense.

ok, so to clarify you do not affirm the Geneva Accords?

and more broadly do not believe in the concept of Legalizm? as in a nation that is a signatory need not have to comply with their oath?

- aka you do not believe in the Rule of Law?

is that your position?

Posted: **Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:16 am**

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:03 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:42 am
gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:38 am

yes i know - i was speaking generally, saw the other guys reference in threat and thought he was wrong. sci guy or e7 or some other person.

I must need help then because I don't fear Russia. In fact I don't fear any country except your own.

ya he must be a troll - never acknowledges the existance of the Westbank. probably calls it Judea and Sumaria

and reads this gem before going to bed each night.

http://maxblumenthal.com/2011/07/inside ... ror-tract/

BTW i'm in fear FOR my Nation since nov16 - and if the Dems don't at least take back our House of Reps in nov18, i think my Nation will become a dictatorship like Russia,

its ok to not fear Russia - i can only assume you do not live in Eastern Europe.

you are not Latvian are you? .
You miss the point. If you read my comments I'm effectively siding with Israel, since the mess isn't the fault of either, and the pro-Palestinian arguments are never very convincing to me. I think both your and scifi fan's arguments are stupid and unconvincing. You are both too agenda-driven to make much sense.
ok, so to clarify you do not affirm the Geneva Accords?

and more broadly do not believe in the concept of Legalizm? as in a nation that is a signatory need not have to comply with their oath?

- aka you do not believe in the Rule of Law?

is that your position?

The 'settlement' conflict has nothing to do with the question of whether or not Israel should exist.

Posted: **Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:14 am**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:16 am
gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:03 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:42 am
You miss the point. If you read my comments I'm effectively siding with Israel, since the mess isn't the fault of either, and the pro-Palestinian arguments are never very convincing to me. I think both your and scifi fan's arguments are stupid and unconvincing. You are both too agenda-driven to make much sense.
ok, so to clarify you do not affirm the Geneva Accords?

and more broadly do not believe in the concept of Legalizm? as in a nation that is a signatory need not have to comply with their oath?

- aka you do not believe in the Rule of Law?

is that your position?
The 'settlement' conflict has nothing to do with the question of whether or not Israel should exist.

???? what????

seeing your above make me think we are on alternate wavelengths.

on one here is denying the right of Israel to exist - most of all myself - nor did i think the same concerning South Africa in the 80's even though their actions were reprehensible.

yes, there is the "fanatical fringe" of around 10-percent who do so (they are hardcore ANTIFA types here in America and Europe) and the similarly few HAMAS types in the Arab world.

both camps are dilusional fanatics and being 10-percent or so i ignore their views - i note them, but until they come close to 3 times more, they are not a threat to rational veiws and thought and so no threat to sanity.

now if you return here to tell me that their numbers are 1/3 of all folks - then i'll concern myself of them

Israel (and Apartheid South Africa of the 80's) has/had the "Right to exist" IMO. I'm talking about IMO here - look at all my prior posts here - not once did i claim the last Apartheid lacked the right to exist.

what Israel does not have the right to do is annex the Westbank as along a they deny the majority living their citizenship (and so representation as members of Israeli society).

we (as the collective community of peoples throughout the world is to protest this by all legal means - including boycotts, sanctions. etc..................we did this with SA in the 80's and it worked. BTW note that at that time no-one claimed "south africa does not have the right to exist".............no-one.

we "Walled them off" until it hurt them too much to continue their injustice.

i think it is long overdue to do the same with Israel and many others agree - that is why we have had BDS for around a decade now.

I fully support BDS and do not see the "conflict" as both sides - there is a right side and a wrong side, Israel is on the wrong side.

WB is ALL about Israel as long as they occupy it. its not an addendum/footnote - but front and center (the center of the center are the Settlements obviously).

and so, I do not claim that Israel does not have the right to exist, so if you want to debate me on that you are wasting your time,

AND i know i've derailed this thread from "what is a Jew" (which IMO has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nation of Israel) to "What about Israel"..............but if you look above 2 others included Israel into the thread and both of them were appologists in matters that challenged my conscience and so felt compelled to address.

the original thread of "What is a Jew" as state just prior is not about Israel, and is also an important question to those that are interested (my input - my 1st post in this thread) was that they are the same as any other member of the other religions.................then Israel showed up shortly after ;-/.

...............................

now - I'd appreciate it if you would address my last post - you replied with a non-sequitor about Israel's right to exist and utterly ignored my inquiry to you "do you affirm the concept of the Rule of Law"?.

.........

well?

Posted: **Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:49 am**

What do you mean by 'alternate wavelengths'? Either something is true or it isn't. I just don't understand why that concept is so difficult.

Posted: **Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:50 am**

gaffo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:14 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:16 am
gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:03 am

ok, so to clarify you do not affirm the Geneva Accords?

and more broadly do not believe in the concept of Legalizm? as in a nation that is a signatory need not have to comply with their oath?

- aka you do not believe in the Rule of Law?

is that your position?
The 'settlement' conflict has nothing to do with the question of whether or not Israel should exist.
???? what????

seeing your above make me think we are on alternate wavelengths.

on one here is denying the right of Israel to exist - most of all myself - nor did i think the same concerning South Africa in the 80's even though their actions were reprehensible.

yes, there is the "fanatical fringe" of around 10-percent who do so (they are hardcore ANTIFA types here in America and Europe) and the similarly few HAMAS types in the Arab world.

both camps are dilusional fanatics and being 10-percent or so i ignore their views - i note them, but until they come close to 3 times more, they are not a threat to rational veiws and thought and so no threat to sanity.

now if you return here to tell me that their numbers are 1/3 of all folks - then i'll concern myself of them

Israel (and Apartheid South Africa of the 80's) has/had the "Right to exist" IMO. I'm talking about IMO here - look at all my prior posts here - not once did i claim the last Apartheid lacked the right to exist.

what Israel does not have the right to do is annex the Westbank as along a they deny the majority living their citizenship (and so representation as members of Israeli society).

we (as the collective community of peoples throughout the world is to protest this by all legal means - including boycotts, sanctions. etc..................we did this with SA in the 80's and it worked. BTW note that at that time no-one claimed "south africa does not have the right to exist".............no-one.

we "Walled them off" until it hurt them too much to continue their injustice.

i think it is long overdue to do the same with Israel and many others agree - that is why we have had BDS for around a decade now.

I fully support BDS and do not see the "conflict" as both sides - there is a right side and a wrong side, Israel is on the wrong side.

WB is ALL about Israel as long as they occupy it. its not an addendum/footnote - but front and center (the center of the center are the Settlements obviously).

and so, I do not claim that Israel does not have the right to exist, so if you want to debate me on that you are wasting your time,

AND i know i've derailed this thread from "what is a Jew" (which IMO has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nation of Israel) to "What about Israel"..............but if you look above 2 others included Israel into the thread and both of them were appologists in matters that challenged my conscience and so felt compelled to address.

the original thread of "What is a Jew" as state just prior is not about Israel, and is also an important question to those that are interested (my input - my 1st post in this thread) was that they are the same as any other member of the other religions.................then Israel showed up shortly after ;-/.

...............................

now - I'd appreciate it if you would address my last post - you replied with a non-sequitor about Israel's right to exist and utterly ignored my inquiry to you "do you affirm the concept of the Rule of Law"?.

.........

well?

What is your motive?

Posted: **Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:13 am**

lol.

i have no motive.

now if you would be so kinda to either ignore my post or answer my prior inquiry.

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