Philosophy Now Forum

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:24 amThe love of wisdom is too old fashioned.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:24 amThe love of wisdom is too old fashioned.

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:24 amThe love of wisdom is too old fashioned.

When was wisdom ever here? It's as much of a myth as the gods. If wisdom had ever prevailed it could never have been so easily negated; if it belonged only to the elite then it merely defaults to a barely functioning myth or metaphor with nothing more to offer. Finally, when things get truly desperate (unquestionably guaranteed) wisdom, or what remains, will unconditionally surrender to the barbarity blitz that follows.

Our world, so we see and hear on all sides, is drowning in materialism, commercialism, consumerism. But the problem is not really there. What we ordinarily speak of as materialism is a result, not a cause. The root of materialism is a poverty of ideas about the inner and outer world. Less and less does our contemporary culture have, or even seek, commerce with great ideas, and it is the lack that is weakening the human spirit. This is the essence of materialism. Materialism is a disease of the mind starved for ideas.

Throughout history ideas of a certain kind have been disseminated into the life of humanity in order to help human beings understand and feel the possibility of the deep inner change that would enable them to serve the purpose for which they were created, namely, to act in the world as conscious individual instruments of God, and the ultimate principle of reality and value. Ideas of this kind are formulated in order to have a specific range of action on the human psych: to touch the heart as well as the intellect; to shock us into questioning our present understanding; to point us to the greatness around us in nature and the universe, and the potential greatness slumbering within ourselves; to open our eyes to the real needs of our neighbor; to confront us with our own profound ignorance and our criminal fears and egoism; to show us that we are not here for ourselves alone, but as necessary particles of divine love.

These are the contours of the ancient wisdom, considered as ideas embodied in religious and philosophical doctrines, works of sacred art,literature and music and, in a very fundamental way, an indication of practical methods by which a man or woman can work, as is said, to become what he or she really is. Without feeling the full range of such ideas, or sensing even a modest, but pure, trace of them, we are bound to turn for meaning.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:09 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:24 amThe love of wisdom is too old fashioned.

When was wisdom ever here? It's as much of a myth as the gods. If wisdom had ever prevailed it could never have been so easily negated; if it belonged only to the elite then it merely defaults to a barely functioning myth or metaphor with nothing more to offer. Finally, when things get truly desperate (unquestionably guaranteed) wisdom, or what remains, will unconditionally surrender to the barbarity blitz that follows.

Wisdom isn't something we have. The love of wisdom begins with acknowledging that it does exist but we do not have it under the sun. At one time philosophy was the love of a human potential we lack. This thread is unwittingly describing one reason we are losing the love of wisdom. Verbal abuse and cyber bullying destroy the quality of ideas which further the love of wisdom and nourish the qualities of mind which make it possible. Jacob needleman describes the problem in his book "The American Soul"

Our world, so we see and hear on all sides, is drowning in materialism, commercialism, consumerism. But the problem is not really there. What we ordinarily speak of as materialism is a result, not a cause. The root of materialism is a poverty of ideas about the inner and outer world. Less and less does our contemporary culture have, or even seek, commerce with great ideas, and it is the lack that is weakening the human spirit. This is the essence of materialism. Materialism is a disease of the mind starved for ideas.

Throughout history ideas of a certain kind have been disseminated into the life of humanity in order to help human beings understand and feel the possibility of the deep inner change that would enable them to serve the purpose for which they were created, namely, to act in the world as conscious individual instruments of God, and the ultimate principle of reality and value. Ideas of this kind are formulated in order to have a specific range of action on the human psych: to touch the heart as well as the intellect; to shock us into questioning our present understanding; to point us to the greatness around us in nature and the universe, and the potential greatness slumbering within ourselves; to open our eyes to the real needs of our neighbor; to confront us with our own profound ignorance and our criminal fears and egoism; to show us that we are not here for ourselves alone, but as necessary particles of divine love.

These are the contours of the ancient wisdom, considered as ideas embodied in religious and philosophical doctrines, works of sacred art,literature and music and, in a very fundamental way, an indication of practical methods by which a man or woman can work, as is said, to become what he or she really is. Without feeling the full range of such ideas, or sensing even a modest, but pure, trace of them, we are bound to turn for meaning.

There is only a minority with a love of wisdom. The world is against them as it becomes increasingly secularized. I respect and admire their love of wisdom and the spiritual search for meaning it leads to even in the presence of all the psychological attacks they must endure as the ideas and influences keeping their love alive are gradually vanishing.

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 amFinally, when things get truly desperate (unquestionably guaranteed) wisdom, or what remains, will unconditionally surrender to the barbarity blitz that follows.

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:14 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 amFinally, when things get truly desperate (unquestionably guaranteed) wisdom, or what remains, will unconditionally surrender to the barbarity blitz that follows.

Good point. Wisdom is a luxury for those who don't have to fight desperately to survive. At some point dignity gives way to the survival instinct.

Seleucus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:45 pm I see my remarks on Katya Zashtopik have also been deleted. I'm not willing to participate in a group that defends idiotic name-calling but censors discovery. This is my last reply here.

Seleucus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:45 pm I see my remarks on Katya Zashtopik have also been deleted. I'm not willing to participate in a group that defends idiotic name-calling but censors discovery. This is my last reply here.

"even if we can't prevent the forces of tyranny from prevailing, we can at least "understand the force by which we are crushed." Simone Weil

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:57 pm The modern era of philosophy is striving to master baiting.

Good luck to you, Nick. You're one of the bright spots of intelligence, and apologies if the observation sends even more silliness your way.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:14 pm

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:14 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:21 amFinally, when things get truly desperate (unquestionably guaranteed) wisdom, or what remains, will unconditionally surrender to the barbarity blitz that follows.

Good point. Wisdom is a luxury for those who don't have to fight desperately to survive. At some point dignity gives way to the survival instinct.

Not really.

Money and survival are irrelevant to wisdom.

An unwise person might be thrown into a desperate funk because they can only get a BMW and not a Bentley.

A captive such as Viktor Frankl who is treated like an animal can retain and expand wisdom.

Wisdom grows from adversity, if the person is so inclined.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:57 pm

Seleucus wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:45 pm I see my remarks on Katya Zashtopik have also been deleted. I'm not willing to participate in a group that defends idiotic name-calling but censors discovery. This is my last reply here.

I just may join you. Life is short.

Greta wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:58 am

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:14 pm

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:14 am
Good point. Wisdom is a luxury for those who don't have to fight desperately to survive. At some point dignity gives way to the survival instinct.

Not really.

Money and survival are irrelevant to wisdom.

An unwise person might be thrown into a desperate funk because they can only get a BMW and not a Bentley.

A captive such as Viktor Frankl who is treated like an animal can retain and expand wisdom.

Wisdom grows from adversity, if the person is so inclined.

There will always be extremes. They are not useful in analysis, rather as examples and lessons.

The human capacity to revert to a more primal state through desperation is well-documented, made famous by Goldman's Lord of the Flies and characterised by the aphorism "nine meals from anarchy" (http://www.internationalman.com/article ... om-anarchy). The fight-or-flight response might bring wisdom in retrospect but it surely suppresses any possible wisdom while active.

The more that people fall into fight-or-flight, the more conflict, which is inevitably followed by tit-for-tat cycles of retribution, made certain now by the success of weak terrorists in beating down might of the US. When the red curtain of anger falls then wisdom - calm, proportionality and clear-sighted assessment - is not possible.