Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

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Arising_uk
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Arising_uk »

Walker wrote:Trying to drag philosophical ideas and discussion out of folks is more hassle than it's worth.

You just get a bunch of questions ...
Those pesky questions eh!
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Greta
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Greta »

It would be nice to talk about ideas. Trouble is, those claiming to want to speak about "ideas" don't.

Instead all they do is attack blacks, gays, trannies, atheists, Muslims, SJWs or "leftists". Such discussion has all the depth of a teaspoon.
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

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A telling selection.
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Lacewing
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Lacewing »

Walker wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:26 pm Trying to drag philosophical ideas and discussion out of folks is more hassle than it's worth.
The ideas and discussions have to be worthwhile in the first place. There are a lot of ignorant opinions... and we sift through that by asking questions and pointing out when people are being dishonest or ignorant. Okay, so maybe we have a little too much fun with that last part, but there's still value in trying to rise above the mediocrity of most thoughts, even if we seek humor as a form of entertainment in the midst of that mediocrity.

Perhaps we don't have enough energy or time to fart around with every little piddly or psycho idea that should have been self-moderated before it was introduced onto the forum. How many times have people used the forum as a personal diary to repetitively log entries about their depression and challenges, or about their unique knowledge and rightness, or about their fantasies, or just to condemn and rage against groups of people that they make absurd generalizations about? It's all idiocy. So the best way to respond in those cases seems to be to ask questions that quickly reveal the idiocy (so we don't waste time pretending it's anything else) -- or to skip right to insults for entertainment's sake? :twisted:

I love thoughtful questions and assessments. If people can be honest and brave (and non-psychotic), I think interesting questions to ask and explore in regard to just about any topic...
Who do we think we are?
Why are we here?
What are we actually doing, aside from what we talk about?
How do our viewpoints or actions offer or add value?
Are we open to the validity and value of other viewpoints, or do we see only ourselves as right?
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Nick_A »

Walker wrote
Trying to drag philosophical ideas and discussion out of folks is more hassle than it's worth.
The Secular Intolerance thread proved that secular intolerance is an emotional expression of denial followed by meaningless attack. By definition it is void of philosophy concerning itself with man’s being. Philosophy is then limited to what promotes secularism and the temporary whims of the Great Beast. For example Plato defined man as a “being in search of meaning.” This raises a basic philosophical question. But as soon as anyone will defend the religious idea that Man’s objective meaning is not provided by the world as it is with a dog but has a higher origin and potential, it will be shot down in the most vile manner. Emotional denial is not open to impartial reason necessary for philosophy defined as the love of wisdom so what you see is what you get.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

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Still not understanding what 'secularism' means eh! Nick.

And still not saying what you would teach instead of what you purport this 'Great Beast' does.
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Nick_A »

Arising_uk wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:45 am Still not understanding what 'secularism' means eh! Nick.

And still not saying what you would teach instead of what you purport this 'Great Beast' does.
This is a perfect example. A thread on ideal education would be as impossible as it is important. Secular intolerance would destroy it so it is better just to argue about Donald Trump and call it philosophy. Some call it progress.
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Greta
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Greta »

Nick_A wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:26 am
Arising_uk wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:45 am Still not understanding what 'secularism' means eh! Nick.

And still not saying what you would teach instead of what you purport this 'Great Beast' does.
This is a perfect example. A thread on ideal education would be as impossible as it is important. Secular intolerance would destroy it so it is better just to argue about Donald Trump and call it philosophy. Some call it progress.
Nope, I think you just need to more clearly elucidate what you are proposing. You keep giving people the wrong impression, perhaps the intensive use of metaphor is misleading.

For a long time, the way you described what you wanted sounded like a theocratic nightmare to me, and one that that took over the moral instruction one would expect from responsible parents. After a while I realised that you are actually just proposing an education system more along the line of the Steiner model, which is almost the opposite of my earlier impressions.

As I've said before, I - as a keen "secularist" - would have loved to have attended a Steiner school. That approach aims to help the person grow rather than just output productive units for the economic machine. However, it takes a lot more staff, and the staff need to have some special skills, so it's expensive. So much good material was indeed rationalised out of education to save money, which basically happens in all areas of society. With mechanisation, society only needs a small proportion of clever people - the rest are increasingly looking like leftovers.
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by duszek »

I haven´t attended an anthroposophic school either (they are called Waldorf-Schulen in Germany) but anyone can try their ideas or something that might resemble their ideas in one´s leasure time.

When I listen to classical music on the radio I move like in a modern ballet.
I experiment with ways of reading books.

If someone has any other ideas I am all ears.

Let´s start an anthroposophic corner here, shall we ?
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Greta wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:35 am
Nick_A wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:26 am
Arising_uk wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:45 am Still not understanding what 'secularism' means eh! Nick.

And still not saying what you would teach instead of what you purport this 'Great Beast' does.
This is a perfect example. A thread on ideal education would be as impossible as it is important. Secular intolerance would destroy it so it is better just to argue about Donald Trump and call it philosophy. Some call it progress.
Nope, I think you just need to more clearly elucidate what you are proposing. You keep giving people the wrong impression, perhaps the intensive use of metaphor is misleading.

For a long time, the way you described what you wanted sounded like a theocratic nightmare to me, and one that that took over the moral instruction one would expect from responsible parents. After a while I realised that you are actually just proposing an education system more along the line of the Steiner model, which is almost the opposite of my earlier impressions.

As I've said before, I - as a keen "secularist" - would have loved to have attended a Steiner school. That approach aims to help the person grow rather than just output productive units for the economic machine. However, it takes a lot more staff, and the staff need to have some special skills, so it's expensive. So much good material was indeed rationalised out of education to save money, which basically happens in all areas of society. With mechanisation, society only needs a small proportion of clever people - the rest are increasingly looking like leftovers.
Steiner schools might look idyllic on the surface, but that's far from the reality. They might have started off ok, but that's humans for you--they manage to spoil everything in one way or another.
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Greta
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Greta »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:44 pm
Greta wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:35 am
Nick_A wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:26 am
This is a perfect example. A thread on ideal education would be as impossible as it is important. Secular intolerance would destroy it so it is better just to argue about Donald Trump and call it philosophy. Some call it progress.
Nope, I think you just need to more clearly elucidate what you are proposing. You keep giving people the wrong impression, perhaps the intensive use of metaphor is misleading.

For a long time, the way you described what you wanted sounded like a theocratic nightmare to me, and one that that took over the moral instruction one would expect from responsible parents. After a while I realised that you are actually just proposing an education system more along the line of the Steiner model, which is almost the opposite of my earlier impressions.

As I've said before, I - as a keen "secularist" - would have loved to have attended a Steiner school. That approach aims to help the person grow rather than just output productive units for the economic machine. However, it takes a lot more staff, and the staff need to have some special skills, so it's expensive. So much good material was indeed rationalised out of education to save money, which basically happens in all areas of society. With mechanisation, society only needs a small proportion of clever people - the rest are increasingly looking like leftovers.
Steiner schools might look idyllic on the surface, but that's far from the reality. They might have started off ok, but that's humans for you--they manage to spoil everything in one way or another.
I hated high school enough to have been willing to try a Steiner school - or any other school, come to think of it :)

I never heard what happened to the Steiner model. For a while there seemed to be a buzz about them and then after a while you stopped hearing about them. Do you know what happened there? Hopefully not "fiddling about" like the RC schools.
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Greta
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Greta »

duszek wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:14 pmI experiment with ways of reading books.
As a matter of interest, in what ways?
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Greta wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:19 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:44 pm
Greta wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:35 am
Nope, I think you just need to more clearly elucidate what you are proposing. You keep giving people the wrong impression, perhaps the intensive use of metaphor is misleading.

For a long time, the way you described what you wanted sounded like a theocratic nightmare to me, and one that that took over the moral instruction one would expect from responsible parents. After a while I realised that you are actually just proposing an education system more along the line of the Steiner model, which is almost the opposite of my earlier impressions.

As I've said before, I - as a keen "secularist" - would have loved to have attended a Steiner school. That approach aims to help the person grow rather than just output productive units for the economic machine. However, it takes a lot more staff, and the staff need to have some special skills, so it's expensive. So much good material was indeed rationalised out of education to save money, which basically happens in all areas of society. With mechanisation, society only needs a small proportion of clever people - the rest are increasingly looking like leftovers.
Steiner schools might look idyllic on the surface, but that's far from the reality. They might have started off ok, but that's humans for you--they manage to spoil everything in one way or another.
I hated high school enough to have been willing to try a Steiner school - or any other school, come to think of it :)

I never heard what happened to the Steiner model. For a while there seemed to be a buzz about them and then after a while you stopped hearing about them. Do you know what happened there? Hopefully not "fiddling about" like the RC schools.
They are more of a cult than a school. I had a child at one for a while but I was never in 'the loop'. There was definitely a rotten core. 'Witches'' covens, lots of 'playing around' (parents and teachers) and massive corruption. Plus, there was little or no actual formal education happening.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greta
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Greta »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:34 pm
Greta wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:19 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:44 pm
Steiner schools might look idyllic on the surface, but that's far from the reality. They might have started off ok, but that's humans for you--they manage to spoil everything in one way or another.
I hated high school enough to have been willing to try a Steiner school - or any other school, come to think of it :)

I never heard what happened to the Steiner model. For a while there seemed to be a buzz about them and then after a while you stopped hearing about them. Do you know what happened there? Hopefully not "fiddling about" like the RC schools.
They are more of a cult than a school. I had a child at one for a while but I was never in 'the loop'. There was definitely a rotten core. 'Witchs'' covens, lots of 'playing around' (parents and teachers) and massive corruption. Plus, there was little or no actual formal education happening.
A wicked problem? Ideally schools would have the freedom to be creative and think outside the box but, seemingly, without some kind of "Big Brother" standing over them there is always an element that goes feral with power. It's a shame that the baby had to go with the bathwater.
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Greta wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:57 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:34 pm
Greta wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:19 pm
I hated high school enough to have been willing to try a Steiner school - or any other school, come to think of it :)

I never heard what happened to the Steiner model. For a while there seemed to be a buzz about them and then after a while you stopped hearing about them. Do you know what happened there? Hopefully not "fiddling about" like the RC schools.
They are more of a cult than a school. I had a child at one for a while but I was never in 'the loop'. There was definitely a rotten core. 'Witchs'' covens, lots of 'playing around' (parents and teachers) and massive corruption. Plus, there was little or no actual formal education happening.
A wicked problem? Ideally schools would have the freedom to be creative and think outside the box but, seemingly, without some kind of "Big Brother" standing over them there is always an element that goes feral with power. It's a shame that the baby had to go with the bathwater.
People are people, which is why the vulnerable (children) need protection from self-serving agenda-driven adults.
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