Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

[Dubious]

Regardless if you re referring to Plato, St. Augustine, or Descartes, The human essence has the ability to remember what always was.

So what is this thing that "always was" which the above, and presumably "Jesus, Socrates, Simone Weil, Jacob Needleman, Einstein and Basarab Nicolescu" remember?

Don't concern yourself with such heavy questions. Here we argue insignificant details.

...and you were shown all the ways they were insignificant, erroneous and even ludicrous while adamantly refusing any such feedback. Heavy questions are definitely beyond your mental muscle to argue. You haven't yet learned to know your place in spite of everyone else knowing it.

[davidm]

You have made MANY false accusations against me and my character over the years, Nick... and I've always pointed them out to you.

Could you point out to me one such incident that occurred here at PhiNow, Lacewing? I'd like to judge it for myself. It may be that you were mistaken.

Who the fuck do you think you are to assess whether I've been falsely accused? I've already clearly pointed out some in this thread -- find them for yourself. Nick has done this for years. I do not need to show YOU anything, and I don't care what your judgment is.

You've met Mick"thinks."

[Arising_uk]

Quite true. The goal of those who believe the ultimate expression of truth and wisdom or the purpose of philosophy is learned in Plato's cave, seek to chase away traditional philosophy which asserts the source of human meaning and purpose as initiating from above. Such old fashioned philosophy as expressed by those like Plato and Plotinus is intolerable for modern educated Man. It isn't Plato's fault that oxford university didn't exist in those times but why should modern sophisticated man with all its knowledge have to suffer? The kitchen should be made too hot to chase them away so the Great Beast can reign supreme in Plato's cave without those annoyances like Simone Weil who refused to accept her place.

You should read some Spengler, he'd point out that you are thinking in an unhistorical way(by his theory of History) and you don't understand the Greeks at all, in fact you cannot as you are not of their civilization nor their culture. To imagine differently is to philosophically delude yourself with the 'western' historical myth that you are on a historical line or track of progress. What you call the 'great beast' is in fact a stage of our civilization and culture and you for some reason or other are not happy with such things? Me I think it's because you've already come with your religious indoctrination intact to the system and found it to difficult to address some of your beliefs and as such have decide to crusade against windmills of your own making. Now I have no problem with the idea that our education system has many failures but my take is that is because it wasn't, in general, set up to educate people but to look after the kids of the factory workers so they can work. Of course before that there was no need at all to educate the kids as they were in the the factories being productive so what need to entertain them, hence much of the world still doesn't.

But more importantly is that once again you refuse to say what you would teach to our kids differently other than providing a sound art, humanities and science education which ironically enough is what the teachers would wish to provide but it is Capitalism that is valuing such things as unproductive and uneconomical, not to say also possibly destabilising, to its model, something Weil would all to well understand. So what is it you would teach above and beyond what I've just outlined? If nothing then you'd be better off spending your time lobbying your politicians or becoming a teacher and teaching rather than feeding your ego with pointless hours of pontification upon the interweeb.

[Arising_uk]

Don't concern yourself with such heavy questions. Here we argue insignificant details. Know your place.

Always the answer of the gnu.

Basically, you either don't know or you refuse to say because it'd show your real agenda rather than this guff about saving the children's spirit.

[Nick_A]

Don't concern yourself with such heavy questions. Here we argue insignificant details. Know your place.

Always the answer of the gnu.

Basically, you either don't know or you refuse to say because it'd show your real agenda rather than this guff about saving the children's spirit.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Plato

There are people here with nothing to say but feel compelled to say something. To compensate for this difficulty they resort to verbal abuse and cyber bullying which makes saying nothing appear superior and influential. You have just proven which side you are on

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Don't concern yourself with such heavy questions. Here we argue insignificant details. Know your place.

Always the answer of the gnu.

Basically, you either don't know or you refuse to say because it'd show your real agenda rather than this guff about saving the children's spirit.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Plato

There are people here with nothing to say but feel compelled to say something. To compensate for this difficulty they resort to verbal abuse and cyber bullying which makes saying nothing appear superior and influential. You have just proven which side you are on

Where do you think she has got to?

[Lacewing]

Never judge for yourself when there are women around to judge for you. There is zero tolerance for slipups.

Women have every right to judge for themselves without any man's wanker opinion. But here's the even greater absurdity revealed by your statement. Do you have ANY awareness whatsoever, Nick, that YOU judge things for people ALL THE TIME (disrespecting what they know better than you)... and YOU have ZERO tolerance or flexibility or understanding for anything other than your own limited viewpoint??? Yet you are trying to pin such behavior on women? Is there no limit to how dishonest and slimy you can be with your projections and denial? You clearly don't care that people can see it -- they're TELLING you that they see it! Which you respond to by playing little victimized games -- boohoo, watch out for bullies and women. "What a world! What a world!" ALL THE WHILE, you peddle some of the worst hate and condemnation from behind your "Look at me... I care about the children" mask. What a phony!

[Arising_uk]

...
There are people here with nothing to say but feel compelled to say something. To compensate for this difficulty they resort to verbal abuse and cyber bullying which makes saying nothing appear superior and influential. You have just proven which side you are on

Well I'm flattered you think I appear superior and influential but I assure you that this is not my aim. Mine has always been a simple one and that is to ask you questions to clarify what it is you actually wish to do with respect to teaching our kids, does that sound like a familiar method? It should. Your avoidance of such questions clearly labels you as a religious gnu and your claim that others should not concern themselves with 'heavy questions' makes you one of the highest order.

So once more Nick_A, what is it you will be teaching our kids above and beyond just providing an full arts, humanities and science based education which I think all can agree would be a positive thing.

[Nick_A]

...
There are people here with nothing to say but feel compelled to say something. To compensate for this difficulty they resort to verbal abuse and cyber bullying which makes saying nothing appear superior and influential. You have just proven which side you are on

Well I'm flattered you think I appear superior and influential but I assure you that this is not my aim. Mine has always been a simple one and that is to ask you questions to clarify what it is you actually wish to do with respect to teaching our kids, does that sound like a familiar method? It should. Your avoidance of such questions clearly labels you as a religious gnu and your claim that others should not concern themselves with 'heavy questions' makes you one of the highest order.

So once more Nick_A, what is it you will be teaching our kids above and beyond just providing an full arts, humanities and science based education which I think all can agree would be a positive thing.

I would like to discuss education but I know it is impossible here. The dominant secular mindset wouldn’t allow it. The purpose of modern progressive education as I’ve witnessed it is to create indoctrinated automatons in service to the state. I believe the purpose of education is to create the environment allowing students to become human beings. The secular mindset seeks to teach facts. Human education enables the student to experience and inwardly verify a human perspective within which facts have their place. This would never be possible here simply because secularists do not appreciate what a human being is, the human condition, and how it deprives us of a human perspective.. There are a minority in the real world who do distinguish between a human education and social indoctrination. I haven’t encountered them here so it would be foolish for me to take the responsibility of starting a thread on education which would be ridiculed into oblivion doing more harm then good. Sometimes you have to let sleeping dogs lie.

“The one continuing purpose of education, since ancient times, has been to bring people to as full a realization as possible of what it is to be a human being. Other statements of educational purpose have also been widely accepted: to develop the intellect, to serve social needs, to contribute to the economy, to create an effective work force, to prepare students for a job or career, to promote a particular social or political system. These purposes offered are undesirably limited in scope, and in some instances they conflict with the broad purpose I have indicated; they imply a distorted human existence. The broader humanistic purpose includes all of them, and goes beyond them, for it seeks to encompass all the dimensions of human experience.” —Arthur W. Foshay, “The Curriculum Matrix: Transcendence and Mathematics,” Journal of Curriculum and Supervision, 1991

[Lacewing]

I would like to discuss education but I know it is impossible here.

Because HERE you're addicted to your beloved complaints, rather than solutions?

The purpose of modern progressive education as I’ve witnessed it is to create indoctrinated automatons in service to the state.

Who are the evil robots who have such an intent?

I believe the purpose of education is to create the environment allowing students to become human beings.

I think that education should give us a solid foundation in basic life and BEING skills -- NOT heavily focused on memorization and conformance -- focused on character-building and sound logic for dealing with an evolving and unpredictable world, and help us to discover and pursue our own potential. But, as with religion and government and gender equality, our educational system has not evolved beyond its archaic beginnings. That's no reason to blame individuals who are just as frustrated with the limitations and distortions of the current system.

There are a minority in the real world who do distinguish between a human education and social indoctrination.

I don't think it's a minority at all. Everyone I know shares the view that I described above. One of my friends ran her own Waldorf-type school for years, which was completely focused on the potential of the individual children... and another friend is a teacher within the current system, and she's doing everything she can every day to evolve beyond the limited curriculum, and to engage and inspire kids who come from truly awful family situations. My experience is of loving people... not the spirit-killers that you rant about.

it would be foolish for me to take the responsibility of starting a thread on education which would be ridiculed into oblivion

I think the ridicule is for two reasons: 1) because people ridicule almost everything on this forum, and 2) because your CLAIMS reflect your limited and skewed thinking, which you continually manipulate to elevate yourself and condemn everyone else. It may serve you, but it's medieval... and people want to evolve beyond that. I've not seen anyone here harping on how education needs to create automatons in service to the state. I've only seen you claiming that's how it is. It's all your stuff that feeds your hate, Nick.

And you love your stuff, which is the primary reason you don't want to talk about positive solutions or respect for individuals or the value of diversity or anything else. Those things don't "get you off" the way your fury does. Correct?

[Nick_A]

Lacewing

I think the ridicule is for two reasons: 1) because people ridicule almost everything on this forum, and 2) because your CLAIMS reflect your limited and skewed thinking, which you continually manipulate to elevate yourself and condemn everyone else. It may serve you, but it's medieval... and people want to evolve beyond that. I've not seen anyone here harping on how education needs to create automatons in service to the state. I've only seen you claiming that's how it is. It's all your stuff that feeds your hate, Nick.

OK so a chief chracteristic of modern philosophy here is ridicule expressed with verbal abuse and cyber bullying. But my limited and skewed thinking is the same as those like Plato, Einstein, Socrates, Simone Weil, Jacob Needleman etc. That is why I quote them. If what I have written on the human condition is accurate, why condemn or hate it? Would it really elevate me to condemn affliction? You’ve been listening to Greta; think for yourself. What do I gain by hating the human condition which through no fault of our own has caused so much harm? Perhaps you are confusing compassion from affirmation with condemnation. You may want to evolve beyond it but if the human condition is as these great minds have described, then it cannot be done with the same mind that created and sustains it. It needs help to evolve and this help must be denied at all cost by progressive secular education

“Humanism was not wrong in thinking that truth, beauty, liberty, and equality are of infinite value, but in thinking that man can get them for himself without grace.” ~ Simone Weil

Human education includes the means for opening to the help of grace in order to become a human being capable of a human perspective. That would go over here like a lead balloon.

And you love your stuff, which is the primary reason you don't want to talk about positive solutions or respect for individuals or the value of diversity or anything else. Those things don't "get you off" the way your fury does. Correct?

As Simone points out, all these goals which attract you are impossible on a large scale without the help of grace. Have you noticed any “fury” in Jesus” life or what Socrates thought? Have you noticed any fury in what Simone or Jacob Needleman have written? Why do you insist that I would write with such fury? Be logical and think for yourself. Forget Greta.

Since we are as we are, everything is as it is. Grace enables a person to become more human and reflect human qualities as opposed to remaining captive of the natural cyclical results of the human condition in Plato’s cave including the great cycle of war and peace. Human education serves awakening while secular progressive education sustains the fallen human condition by denying grace. The idea is so offensive to dominant secularism here that it could never be impartially discussed.

[Lacewing]

.
Oh Nick, your lame insults really don't make you look intelligent at all.

You’ve been listening to Greta; think for yourself.../... Be logical and think for yourself. Forget Greta.

Again, I don't know if you're dishonest or stupid. How did you come up with this? I think it's fairly obvious in all of my posts that I think for myself. I have no clue what you're babbling about. God, I just can't stop laughing at how absurd you are. You come up with the most ridiculous claims... apparently to avoid looking at yourself. YOU, more than anyone on this forum, quote other people... and you've been told by some posters to "think for yourself"... which was very appropriate in your case. But here you try to accuse me of such a thing, which is so off-base. You're just too outside of reality to talk with.

Here, for the holidays, is a nice little poem for you...

You're making up things left and right
Casting everything as black or white
Only you and your heroes know the score
Which is not only dishonest, but makes you a big bore

[Nick_A]

.
Oh Nick, your lame insults really don't make you look intelligent at all.

You’ve been listening to Greta; think for yourself.../... Be logical and think for yourself. Forget Greta.

Again, I don't know if you're dishonest or stupid. How did you come up with this? I think it's fairly obvious in all of my posts that I think for myself. I have no clue what you're babbling about. God, I just can't stop laughing at how absurd you are. You come up with the most ridiculous claims... apparently to avoid looking at yourself. YOU, more than anyone on this forum, quote other people... and you've been told by some posters to "think for yourself"... which was very appropriate in your case. But here you try to accuse me of such a thing, which is so off-base. You're just too outside of reality to talk with.

Here, for the holidays, is a nice little poem for you...

You're making up things left and right
Casting everything as black or white
Only you and your heroes know the score
Which is not only dishonest, but makes you a big bore

Don't tell me you thought of this accusation against me of hateful fury in my posts. It doesn't exist. All that nonsense was started by Greta. Show me examples of my hateful fury. If it doesn't exist doesn't it prove that you are just emoting?

[Lacewing]

Don't tell me you thought of this accusation against me of hateful fury in my posts.

Yes, it does exist and yes this characteristic about you has occurred to me because of the way you tell people over and over that they are in league with spirit-killing and the great beast. These are hateful attitudes, Nick, and you've done it even when I've made an effort to have a reasonable conversation with you. It's as if you suddenly can't stand the questioning and exploration, and you have to start spewing your venom fast and furious to coat everything in a thick, impenetrable slime. It's like you're trying to obscure anything that would reveal how limited and hateful your position is.

Maybe Greta came up with a good description of what a lot of people have apparently seen for themselves. Surely you are aware that I've been blasting your behavior for a long time. It doesn’t matter if you believe you are speaking the truth about other people -- you receive enough feedback to the contrary, so your ignorance and delusion are not justification for such false and hateful accusations. You need to be accountable, and people have a right (and perhaps even a duty) to hold you and your absurdity in check. I'm glad to help when I can.

[thedoc]

Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying only effect those who have very thin skin and actually care what others on the internet think of them. Most don't care what strangers think of them.