Can you do cursive writing (US)?

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EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:36 pm

Yes, we are taught in school. We actually have a high calligraphy culture in the US, especially in San Francisco, it is associated with the book making groups. I myself have been making scrolls of a few classical texts, hand written. I started with scribal scrolls from EBay from a guy in Texas trying to resurrect the Cenobite tradition, but got tired of beinrestricted to six feet of scroll, so started experimenting with synthetic plastics than act like parchment.

I also started with brush pen, but have moved to using a quill, and have recently started making a ink from coal (terrible results with the coal, but I'll master it).

I've also used a wax tablet for a while too, as well as sand tables, not to mention a beach in Oahu when I broke my tablet and needed to write. If it worked for Archimedes, can work for me.

Here is a image of my first purchase, what I started off with:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/2236/7whFEg.png

I've used a few classical English hand writing styles, used a few centuries back, but have honestly largely abandoned romanized English for Shaw Alphabet English, due to it's pure phonetic nature, and it is pure print, no cursive. I even got it on my IPad, which took a lot of effort going through Unicode and keyboards.

That's for us Americans. I'm seriously doubting any of you have explored proper calligraphy and ink making, be it eastern or western, or book making, much less scrolls. I've also made my own paper, but can't currently do it given the plants I used are withering along the river due to the fall weather.

So all you self righteous British superstars thinking your top of the world with mere cursive shut up. Greeks abandoned cursive with the koine script used for the Byzantine court, my printing script closely parallels it more than Latin, even when I write in Latin. It is perfect, concentrated, immaculate. I go through multiple notebooks a month. I keep it stead, uniform, constant in spacing. My signature is a few incoherent wiggles as I'm largely insulted when demanded to give a written signature. It is a joke of a script, and we had far better examples from the past of more artful and elegant forms simply unreadable today. In so,e parts of the world, being a good calligrapher is on par with being a master sword maker, or poet, or martial artist. It requires a lot of meditative focus and a lifelong dedication to master it.

thedoc
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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by thedoc » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:08 am

My signature is a cursive version of writing, though lately it has gotten worst, (more like a scribal) due to age and Awkward position of the computer pads that you now need to sign on. Years ago I would letter everything because of my experience as a draftsman.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:00 am

I was taught, but it wasn't strictly enforced, so needless to say, I've pretty much lost my knowledge of how to use it. So no, I can neither fluently write in cursive, nor read it.

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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:10 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:55 pm
Children in the UK never stopped learning to write.

I find what this thread implies about the US educational system horrifying.
Why do you find it horrifying? Is teaching children to write the same language, but in a different font, such an important milestone to their education? What practical use does it have, besides not understanding when other people use it? I think it would be far more intriguing and beneficial if we taught people to use Morse, and other basic coding.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:10 am

The older forms of cursive was used for secretaries writing notes, a kind of early shorthand. Printing was used more for government documents, part of the pre renaissance revolution in rhetorical discourse. If you find any books on the history of Vico's rhetoric, they tend to touch on the late medieval evolution of government texts prior to humanism. The cursive, I am damn surprised survived. The art of letter writing could of swing either direction, but favored cursive writing in the 19th century in the US. Sure the heck isn't the case now, our demands for signatures in cursive are derived from early judicial precedents involving graphology.

I've always wanted to sign a document with a wax seal. See if a court will recognize it or not. Press a ring into it, have a emblem of a vomiting chipmunk on a branch chunking on pedestrians below (my ideal family crest), in substitution for a signature.

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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by -1- » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:57 pm

ken wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:28 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote:For me communications is a basic that can benefit anyone. In the US, it had fallen out of favor, but I've read it's starting to come back.

I've always regarded writing as a natural skill, one that's easy to pick up, for me and many others. How about you?

PhilX
Although I agree wholeheartedly that communication is a basic that can, and will, benefit everyone, I find communicating successfully a very difficult skill. I have absolutely no idea yet on how to express what I want to say and have that fully heard and fully understood.
I pride myself as an excellent communicator. My flair for writing was discovered in grades 4, 8, and 9, by so many different teachers.

The problem with communication lies in other people. I communicate clearly, logically, lobically and with reason. However, many don't understand my messages, due to their individual faults of an inability to comprehend.

(Said with tongue-in-cheek --> said before you go bombastically ballistic, VegetarianTaxidermy.)

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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by -1- » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:01 pm

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:10 am
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:55 pm
Children in the UK never stopped learning to write.

I find what this thread implies about the US educational system horrifying.
Why do you find it horrifying? Is teaching children to write the same language, but in a different font, such an important milestone to their education? What practical use does it have, besides not understanding when other people use it? I think it would be far more intriguing and beneficial if we taught people to use Morse, and other basic coding.
Apparently cursive writing is the most difficult action man can acquire. If employs at the same time eye-hand coordination, thought processing, language skills, and the three things have to converge in one single solitary action.

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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:10 pm

-1- wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:01 pm
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:10 am
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:55 pm
Children in the UK never stopped learning to write.

I find what this thread implies about the US educational system horrifying.
Why do you find it horrifying? Is teaching children to write the same language, but in a different font, such an important milestone to their education? What practical use does it have, besides not understanding when other people use it? I think it would be far more intriguing and beneficial if we taught people to use Morse, and other basic coding.
Apparently cursive writing is the most difficult action man can acquire. If employs at the same time eye-hand coordination, thought processing, language skills, and the three things have to converge in one single solitary action.
Are you trying to say that you think US schools stopped teaching it because it was since deemed too difficult? From what I understand it has far more to do with the increased relevancy of computer typing, and instead focusing on that.

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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by -1- » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:35 pm

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:10 pm
Are you trying to say that you think US schools stopped teaching it because it was since deemed too difficult? From what I understand it has far more to do with the increased relevancy of computer typing, and instead focusing on that.
Thanks for asking. No, I was not trying to say what you asked if I was trying to say.

I generally don't try to say anything. I say things I want to say, I don't write between the lines. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. In this sense American readers find me strange and unconventional. This is so because they are used to reading the Bible, which was written to be a document to describe hard facts and true historical events 2000 years and before ago. In the interim, light came upon the fact that that verbatim meaning has been rendered totally stupid; hence, the American religious literary minds perfected the way of "interpreting" the bible, which means that they force the text to be understood as symbolic.

I am not symbolic in that sense. I say what I mean, just like the Bible was written originally to mean what it said. No need to guess. If something is not there what you expect to be there, it is not there and it ought not to be imagined that it is there.

(This does not equate to my writing only facts as opinions. I use hyperboles and other means of humour as well. I use sarcasm, and stretching facts or reality for the sake of humour.)

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:14 pm

...It was a fairly straight forward question. You didn't need to respond by telling me your life story and going off on a rant about religion in america. A religion I don't follow, by the way.
-1- wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:35 pm
I generally don't try to say anything. I say things I want to say, I don't write between the lines. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say.
...That all seems pretty contradictory to me. "I don't say anything, I say what I want, I mean what I say (Btw, I also use hyperbole and sarcasm as well)" Almost sounds like a donald trump quote.

Anyway, I'm just goofing on you, a bit. So why is it that you think cursive writing is so important?

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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by -1- » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:30 pm

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:14 pm
...It was a fairly straight forward question. You didn't need to respond by telling me your life story and going off on a rant about religion in america. A religion I don't follow, by the way.
-1- wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:35 pm
I generally don't try to say anything. I say things I want to say, I don't write between the lines. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say.
...That all seems pretty contradictory to me. "I don't say anything, I say what I want, I mean what I say (Btw, I also use hyperbole and sarcasm as well)" Almost sounds like a donald trump quote.

Anyway, I'm just goofing on you, a bit. So why is it that you think cursive writing is so important?
I did not say cursive writing is important. Again, you are putting words in my mouth.

Also, you misquoted me. You claimed I had said, " "I don't say anything, I say what I want, I mean what I say" (Followed by "Almost sounds like a donald trump quote.") You left out "try to" after the initial "I don't". Therefore, you created a Strawman fallacy: you claimed a statement to be said by me though I did not say it, and you argued successfully against what I did not say. Then you compared it to a Stupid Man's possible utterance.

Well, I'll be.

You must forgive me for coming down so heavy-handed. I am in the throes of arguing against someone called Johndoe (backward, followed by a "7"), and it's pretty intense there.

I should have come here with a lighter heart. Sorry, I will respectfully withdraw, because I realize I am in the wrong mind-set for this current discussion.

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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:11 am

-1- wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:30 pm
I did not say cursive writing is important.
Implications. It certainly sounded like you were trying to say that cursive writing is important. It seemed like you were trying to defend it.
Also, you misquoted me. You claimed I had said, " "I don't say anything, I say what I want, I mean what I say" (Followed by "Almost sounds like a donald trump quote.") You left out "try to" after the initial "I don't". Therefore, you created a Strawman fallacy: you claimed a statement to be said by me though I did not say it, and you argued successfully against what I did not say. Then you compared it to a Stupid Man's possible utterance.
Paraphrasing. I didn't 'misquote' you, I made sure the exact quote was literally right above me. I mean, I left out the word 'generally', added in a comma, and further parenthesized something else as well; I was mocking the spirit of what you were saying, not quoting you verbatim. Sounds sort of like you've created a strawman by replying to an intention I didn't actually have?

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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by -1- » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:43 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:11 am
-1- wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:30 pm
I did not say cursive writing is important.
Implications. It certainly sounded like you were trying to say that cursive writing is important. It seemed like you were trying to defend it.
Also, you misquoted me. You claimed I had said, " "I don't say anything, I say what I want, I mean what I say" (Followed by "Almost sounds like a donald trump quote.") You left out "try to" after the initial "I don't". Therefore, you created a Strawman fallacy: you claimed a statement to be said by me though I did not say it, and you argued successfully against what I did not say. Then you compared it to a Stupid Man's possible utterance.
Paraphrasing. I didn't 'misquote' you, I made sure the exact quote was literally right above me. I mean, I left out the word 'generally', added in a comma, and further parenthesized something else as well; I was mocking the spirit of what you were saying, not quoting you verbatim. Sounds sort of like you've created a strawman by replying to an intention I didn't actually have?
The emphasis was on the "I don't say something when I say something" which was definitely nonsensical, and that was in quotation marks.

But it's okay. I am sorry I raised an issue with this, when you were, it seems to me now, obviously jokular, and jostling.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:04 am

Well, if I was trying to create a false impression of your position by literally misquoting what you really said, I guess I'm exceptionally bad at it, because the actual quote was right above that particular comment.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Can you do cursive writing (US)?

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:27 am

Okay, nobody cares if someone was misquoted. Furthermore, Americans don't exclusively read the Bible, our biblical heurmunetics is pretty much identical except to what Europe produced in the same vein, and we never limited our literature to just the Bible.... we always had other political and historical works around, as well as larger religious literature. I don't need anyone to apologize to me for pointing this out, as it is one of the many lazy bigoted stereotypes on this forum, pretty much every thread has them, do not care.... as it has nothing to do with actual history.

Lastly, we are taught cursive writing separately from computer typing classes. I didn't start learning to type till 2nd grade, was exposed to cursive earlier than that. I'm 34, was in school right about when schools started networking IMB computers to servers, but no real internet yet. Reason I didn't take up cursive was because it was a weak form of handwriting, it has absolutely no benefits over printing. I used cursive through second to fourth grade, and eventually abandoned it. I remember looking at the Z letter, thinking it was old fashioned and antiquated, and just unnecessary. Some people stuck to it, still use it, but given notebook paper reports was often requested in print over cursive by teachers who couldn't figure out what our chickenscratch writing was, that likely helped tip the balance.

That was my experience. We also don't use the Ampersand & anymore either, and it isn't because we are too stupid or lack imagination. I use it sometimes in the Shaw Alphabet, because it has a perfect function, or when doing a large tract in regular English, but more people don't bother. Cursive was dying off before computer took over. Seems correlated, but really wasn't in my experience. Perhaps my generation was just more pragmatic, or didn't feel as attached to fancy lettered writing after a few generations behind us of people using phones to communicate.

Now I do strongly suspect eventually handwriting will die off all together. Increasingly less reason to write, unless you are me, who finds having a tablet, laptop, and notebook and actual book out at once is okay and more efficient, using one tablet for internet searches, laptop for the paper, notebook for random notes. Add a big screen tv for news distraction.

Kids just don't need it. Same reason we don't teach them to hunt with throwing spears, that tradition died out long, long ago because someone noted bows and then rifles just worked better. The universe won't end because nobody wants to use cursive writing anymore. Always be a small group of enthusiasts if someone absolutely must adopt it.

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