Merry Christmas!

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uwot
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by uwot » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:03 am

Well, as the clatter of bottles in the street indicated, it was time to put the recycling out. It was a bit of a daft question really; I suppose you were doing much the same as me, given that Barnsley and London are in the same time zone.

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Harbal
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by Harbal » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:08 am

uwot wrote: Barnsley and London are in the same time zone.
Only in a geographical sense. :)

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attofishpi
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by attofishpi » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:39 am

uwot wrote:
attofishpi wrote:...there wouldn't be a Christmas if it weren't for the Christians and Christ.
True enough. Were it not for that myth,
Myth..a traditional story accepted as history; serves to explain the world view of a people
His.story is no myth. There is only one reason that pagans converted to Christianity - that is empathy with a God that connected with us via a son - not the sun.
uwot wrote:we might be celebrating Saturnalia, Yule, Modraniht, Disablot, Shab-e Yalda or any of a range of festivals to mark the longest night and the birth of a new Sun.
Celebrate the movement of celestial bodies or comprehend the logic of a man manifested as the son of God, was the choice...the answer was obvious to ALL of those that could comprehend who they were, children of God.
uwot wrote: The Sun and God were pretty much the same thing in the ancient world; the proto indo-european word dyeu is the etymological root of the Latin Deus, Greek Zeus, French Dieu and English day.
Some Christians argue the same about Christ the Son of God.
uwot wrote:Some people argue that Jesus is from the same root; it's a bit tenuous, but one thing is certain, it wasn't spelt with a J, because that letter was only invented in 1524. One way or another, we would be getting together around the winter solstice to eat and drink too much. Whatever the reason, it's party time. Cheers everybody!
Whatever the rea_son (understand rea in latin) it made sense to all these pagans.
I should point out that man's lan_guage is also the domain of God.

marjoram_blues
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by marjoram_blues » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:25 am

uwot wrote:Well, as the clatter of bottles in the street indicated, it was time to put the recycling out. It was a bit of a daft question really; I suppose you were doing much the same as me, given that Barnsley and London are in the same time zone.
I was just wondrin' if we could save this thread for next year. Pretty sure it's the product of several years of same old, same old. How often can words and thoughts be recycled before they lose their philosophical value.
But I guess dear ole henry quirk just thought to bring out the community spirit in us. Social value an' all :wink:

Cheers!
Again.
To the total deja viewness, no newness of this never ending chatter of same old boozers, intoxicated in PN Pub Paradiso.

uwot
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by uwot » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:33 am

attofishpi wrote:There is only one reason that pagans converted to Christianity - that is empathy with a God that connected with us via a son - not the sun.
It is an historical fact that pagans were frequently 'converted' for political ends by brute force. This from wikipedia, for example:
"During the Saxon Wars, the Christian Frankish king Charlemagne waged war on the pagan Saxons for over 20 years, seeking to Christianize and rule the Saxons." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Paganism
attofishpi wrote:I should point out that man's lan_guage is also the domain of God.
That may be so, but I seriously doubt it.

uwot
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by uwot » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:39 am

marjoram_blues wrote:How often can words and thoughts be recycled before they lose their philosophical value.
Beats me, but given we still read ancient Greeks, the best estimate I can give is quite a lot.
marjoram_blues wrote:To the total deja viewness, no newness of this never ending chatter of same old boozers, intoxicated in PN Pub Paradiso.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Chin chin.

marjoram_blues
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by marjoram_blues » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:59 am

uwot wrote:
marjoram_blues wrote:How often can words and thoughts be recycled before they lose their philosophical value.
Beats me, but given we still read ancient Greeks, the best estimate I can give is quite a lot.
marjoram_blues wrote:To the total deja viewness, no newness of this never ending chatter of same old boozers, intoxicated in PN Pub Paradiso.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Chin chin.
D'accordo.
I'm gonna be having a look again at Stoic philosophy; perhaps with a Norwegian twist :)

Here's to a refreshing new cocktail recipe - mixing it up.
Cheers!

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Lacewing
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by Lacewing » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:24 pm

Here are some historical cues for traditionally celebrating this season... :D

A time of feasting, goodwill, and generosity to the poor.

Dress codes were relaxed, and small gifts such as dolls, candles, and caged birds were exchanged.

Pagans have long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them.

Saturnalia saw the inversion of social roles. The wealthy were expected to pay the month’s rent for those who couldn’t afford it, masters and slaves swapped clothes. Family households threw dice to determine who would become the temporary Saturnalian monarch.

The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, and singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling).

Public festivals and games opened with sweets, fruit, and nuts showered on the crowd and featured flights of flamingos released over Rome. Shows with fighting dwarves and female gladiators were illuminated.

Season’s greetings everyone!

Walker
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by Walker » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:36 pm

Religion is a way of defining principles.
Cultural expressions of principles vary and change.
The principle of Christmas remains the same, whether it is culturally celebrated with wrestling dwarfs, or witnessing the Nutcracker for entertainment.

This is why philosophy is about principles, not history.

Merry Christmas!

:D

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:21 pm

Expect when it isn't about defining principles, then religion is not about that, but other stuff instead.

You'll have better luck bottling the ocean, than containing religion to one mode of thinking, of one type, of one thing.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:27 pm

Walker wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:36 pm
Religion is a way of defining principles.
Cultural expressions of principles vary and change.
The principle of Christmas remains the same, whether it is culturally celebrated with wrestling dwarfs, or witnessing the Nutcracker for entertainment.

This is why philosophy is about principles, not history.

Merry Christmas!

:D
Christmas has nothing to do with christianity. It doesn't even 'feel' like a religious celebration. It has a very pagan feel, with all that 'yule' stuff, and winter/snow associations. How often does it snow in Israel? Clearly christians had little imagination, unable to think up their own celebrations, so they stole the interesting and earthy pagan/heathen ones.

Walker
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by Walker » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:56 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:27 pm
Walker wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:36 pm
Religion is a way of defining principles.
Cultural expressions of principles vary and change.
The principle of Christmas remains the same, whether it is culturally celebrated with wrestling dwarfs, or witnessing the Nutcracker for entertainment.

This is why philosophy is about principles, not history.

Merry Christmas!

:D
Christmas has nothing to do with christianity. It doesn't even 'feel' like a religious celebration. It has a very pagan feel, with all that 'yule' stuff, and winter/snow associations. How often does it snow in Israel? Clearly christians had little imagination, unable to think up their own celebrations, so they stole the interesting and earthy pagan/heathen ones.
Certainly not the fault of Christians. Blame Mammonites.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:04 pm

Walker wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:56 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:27 pm
Walker wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:36 pm
Religion is a way of defining principles.
Cultural expressions of principles vary and change.
The principle of Christmas remains the same, whether it is culturally celebrated with wrestling dwarfs, or witnessing the Nutcracker for entertainment.

This is why philosophy is about principles, not history.

Merry Christmas!

:D
Christmas has nothing to do with christianity. It doesn't even 'feel' like a religious celebration. It has a very pagan feel, with all that 'yule' stuff, and winter/snow associations. How often does it snow in Israel? Clearly christians had little imagination, unable to think up their own celebrations, so they stole the interesting and earthy pagan/heathen ones.
Certainly not the fault of Christians. Blame Mammonites.
I wasn't making any judgements, I was just stating facts. I don't know why christians get so upset when they are told this. Facts don't change just because someone doesn't like them.

Walker
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by Walker » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:10 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:04 pm
Walker wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:56 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:27 pm


Christmas has nothing to do with christianity. It doesn't even 'feel' like a religious celebration. It has a very pagan feel, with all that 'yule' stuff, and winter/snow associations. How often does it snow in Israel? Clearly christians had little imagination, unable to think up their own celebrations, so they stole the interesting and earthy pagan/heathen ones.
Certainly not the fault of Christians. Blame Mammonites.
I wasn't making any judgements, I was just stating facts. I don't know why christians get so upset when they are told this. Facts don't change just because someone doesn't like them.
I don't know why you think anyone is upset, or why truth-tellers must be Christian.

Must be your game.

"So much wasted time."
- last words of David Cassidy

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Merry Christmas!

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:17 pm

Walker wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:10 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:04 pm
Walker wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:56 pm


Certainly not the fault of Christians. Blame Mammonites.
I wasn't making any judgements, I was just stating facts. I don't know why christians get so upset when they are told this. Facts don't change just because someone doesn't like them.
I don't know why you think anyone is upset, or why truth-tellers must be Christian.

Must be your game.

"So much wasted time."
- last words of David Cassidy
Because I've seen it often enough.

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